Horse collar

[secondregionbug]

Is it illegal in high school football and if it is what is the foul and penalty?

[jaybird]

No. The "horse collar" is an NFL rule.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by secondregionbug

Is it illegal in high school football and if it is what is the foul and penalty?

CANADIAN RULING:

There is no specific restriction on the acts that the NFL calls a horse collar. However, like any play in our game, if an act is judged to be rough and unnecessary, the officials can rule the act as Unnecessary Roughness. UR is 15y + AFD. Spots of enforcement vary depending on the situation. If it's ultra-severe, the UR foul is upgraded to Rough Play, which carries the same spots of enforcement and AFD, but is 25y and DQ.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

CANADIAN RULING:

There is no specific restriction on the acts that the NFL calls a horse collar.

There used to be one, violation of which was called "scragging".

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

There used to be one, violation of which was called "scragging".

You have to tell me more! I like the history of the game just like you do!

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Can someone post for me the actual wording of the NFL Horse Collar Tackle rule, or alternatively, post a link to the wording.

Thanks

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

Can someone post for me the actual wording of the NFL Horse Collar Tackle rule, or alternatively, post a link to the wording.

Thanks

This wording is from the NAFL rule book. I'm sure the NFL wording is close if not exact.

d..Grabbing the inside collar of the back of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside
collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling down
the runner. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a

quarterback who is in the pocket.

The Penalty: For fouls in a, b, c, and d: Loss of 15 yards. If any of the above acts is
judged by the official(s) to be flagrant, the offender may be disqualified as long as

the entire action is observed by the official(s).

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by Theisey

This wording is from the NAFL rule book. I'm sure the NFL wording is close if not exact.

d..Grabbing the inside collar of the back of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside
collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling down
the runner. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a

quarterback who is in the pocket.

The Penalty: For fouls in a, b, c, and d: Loss of 15 yards. If any of the above acts is
judged by the official(s) to be flagrant, the offender may be disqualified as long as

the entire action is observed by the official(s).

Thank you.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

You have to tell me more! I like the history of the game just like you do!

It dates from before there were helmets, but it lasted considerably into the helmet era, just don't ask me for dates. Among the items listed as RP was "scragging", which was not defined in the rule book, it was just common rugby terminology at one time. Eventually that wording in the UR & RP provisions was replaced with, approximately, "tackling about the head or neck in an unnecessarily rough manner" around the same time as "tackling out of bounds in an unnecessarily rough manner" came in. Previously the rule had theoretically forbidden either practice entirely, as is the case now again for tackling out of bounds.

Until about a quarter century ago, Canadian football was known as a rougher form of the game -- slow whistles, liberal interpret'n of the UR & RP provisions. RP wasn't an automatic DQ, only a warning or discretionary DQ for 1st violation.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Theisey

This wording is from the NAFL rule book. I'm sure the NFL wording is close if not exact.

d..Grabbing the inside collar of the back of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside
collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling down
the runner. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a

quarterback who is in the pocket.

The Penalty: For fouls in a, b, c, and d: Loss of 15 yards. If any of the above acts is
judged by the official(s) to be flagrant, the offender may be disqualified as long as

the entire action is observed by the official(s).

Oh! My answer to Juggling Referree was based on the idea that it was a neck hold by the arm, not a mere shirt collar. Why do they call it a "horse collar", then? They should just call it "collaring" somebody. An actual horse collar is a thick thing that more or less parallels the horse's clavicle; I was envisioning a tackler's forearm and inside of the elbow in that position -- like a half Nelson, but not necessarily from over the back.

Why is tackling by the shirt collar or shoulder harness even illegal in NFL & NAFL rules? It doesn't seem to endanger the neck anywhere near as much as actually holding the neck or clotheslining would.

Robert

[golfnref]

It's not about the neck, Robert, It's about the legs.

[Theisey]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

...(snip)

Why is tackling by the shirt collar or shoulder harness even illegal in NFL & NAFL rules? It doesn't seem to endanger the neck anywhere near as much as actually holding the neck or clotheslining would.

Robert

Don't know, why don't you ask the NFL rules people. They just fined this guy big buck$ for his "horse collar" tackle in an NFL game last weekend. This comes after we was already warned for having done it twice this year already.

They (the NFL) apparently are taking this type of tackle very seriously.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by golfnref

It's not about the neck, Robert, It's about the legs.

Wasn't it a horse collar tackle that ended the career of Bo Jackson?

[golfnref]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Wasn't it a horse collar tackle that ended the career of Bo Jackson?

I think you are correct. I seem to recall he developed avascular necrosis in the hip from the awkard way he was pulled down by a horse collar tackle.
Robert will probably recall better than I.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Theisey

Don't know, why don't you ask the NFL rules people. They just fined this guy big buck$ for his "horse collar" tackle in an NFL game last weekend. This comes after we was already warned for having done it twice this year already.

They (the NFL) apparently are taking this type of tackle very seriously.

The rule was created because Terrell Owens of the Eagles was "horse collared" by Roy Williams of the Cowboys and Owens was out for the rest of the regular season and did not play until the Super Bowl. Williams had also a year before hurt another player who I do not know by the same tactic. The NFL felt that guys were purposely grabbing that area and started to make this illegal.

Peace