substitution vs participation

[JRutledge]

I am looking at the casebook and your references (The 2008 National Federation Football Casebook). There is not one comment about "3 seconds" in this book under those references.

And under reference 3.7.1 Situation B, Comment says:

"In a related situation, if the covering official's count of the players has determined there are more than 11 prior to the snap, a dead-ball illegal substitution foul should be charged since a replaced player(s) did not leave immediately. However, if the official's count is not completed before the snap is imminent or if the subsitutiion has not been monitored, it becomes illegal participation at the snap if more than 11 are in the formation. Each team is responsible for substituting legally and for replaced players to leave immediately as required (3-7-4; 9-6-4c)

This is not my commenting on the rule, I just quoted it. That sounds a lot like your situation. There is absolutely no reference to “3 seconds” constituting the term “immediately” in making a substitution.

I do not know what rulebook you are actually looking at, but I quoted the actual casebook.

Peace

[hawkishowl20]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am looking at the casebook and your references (The 2008 National Federation Football Casebook). There is not one comment about "3 seconds" in this book under those references.

And under reference 3.7.1 Situation B, Comment says:

"In a related situation, if the covering official's count of the players has determined there are more than 11 prior to the snap, a dead-ball illegal substitution foul should be charged since a replaced player(s) did not leave immediately. However, if the official's count is not completed before the snap is imminent or if the subsitutiion has not been monitored, it becomes illegal participation at the snap if more than 11 are in the formation. Each team is responsible for substituting legally and for replaced players to leave immediately as required (3-7-4; 9-6-4c)

This is not my commenting on the rule, I just quoted it. That sounds a lot like your situation. There is absolutely no reference to “3 seconds” constituting the term “immediately” in making a substitution.

I do not know what rulebook you are actually looking at, but I quoted the actual casebook.

Peace

Thank you for that. I didn't see that in the 08 book. My quotation is from a few years ago I have it on the computer. Does 3 seconds still define immediately? they defined it and never undefined it right?

[PSU213]

Originally Posted by hawkishowl20

Thank you for that. I didn't see that in the 08 book. My quotation is from a few years ago I have it on the computer. Does 3 seconds still define immediately? they defined it and never undefined it right?

Is undefining something akin to 'reestablishing' yourself in bounds in basketball (and since some people have some basic rules issues today, there is no such thing in football).

I'm sure they are lots of phrases, rules, etc. in old rulebooks that have not been 'undefined' yet they are definitely not still in existence.

[waltjp]

Good Grief.

[FTVMartin]

This really is kind of simple. It all boils down to when the official discovered 12. before the snap, kill and get the 5 yarder. after the snap, 15 for IP.

BTW - the OP said nothing about the player trying to leave the field. Coach - If you don't want to take the chance of getting a 15 yarder, call timeout. If you don't, you are leaving it up to us as to when we discover 12 guys on the field. As has been pointed out, sometimes we just don't get it quick enough but it's not our fault. You had too many guys on the field. We just call it.

[JugglingReferee]

hawkishowl20,

Nobody welcome'd you to our forum.

So, welcome. Please do stay around here and contribute.