How Do You Penalize Chipping by the Offense?

[Ed Hickland]

Know we went through this sometime in the past and I seem to remember one association or state (commonwealth as in Kentucky, Mass. uses NCAA) that had a good solution.

A player running for a touchdown when A78 decides this is a good time to give opponent B78 a nice unsuspected de-cleater fifty yards away from the ball while it is still alive. Personal foul. How do you penalize if the result of the play is a touchdown? What if it results in a tackle at the one yard line still in A's possession?

Could someone refresh my memory? Thanks.

[jaybird]

How Do You Penalize Chipping by the Offense?

What is chipping?

[Welpe]

Ed, speaking NFHS, if the foul occurs before the touchdown is scored, treat it as a liveball foul and enforce it under the all but one principle. The penalty will be enforced from the spot of the foul since it was behind the basic spot. If the foul occured after the score, it is enforced as a dead ball penalty from the succeeding spot (the try). If there's any doubt, I'd consider making it a live ball foul.

In either case, if the foul is flagarant, disqualify A78. I would strongly consider disqualification for a blind hit 50 yards behind the play that decleats the B player.

This is a penalty I flagged a lot last season. I was surprised how often it happened but that is why it is so important for those of us behind the play to be vigilantly cleaning up this kind of behavior.

[ajmc]

Flagging this type behavior as a live ball foul, eliminating the score, will likely bring the standard list of predictable howls from the sideline affected, but the lesson learned by the offender, and his team, will last 1000 times longer.

The Referee, or the Umpire or BJ (4 or 5 man) in the case of an interception or advanced defensive fumble recovery, should remain behind the flow just to guard against this type situation.

[Sonofanump]

I read the title and pictured Steve Buscemi in Fargo putting his friend in the wood chipper.

Oh, back to the question, I agree with live ball foul from spot of foul.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Know we went through this sometime in the past and I seem to remember one association or state (commonwealth as in Kentucky, Mass. uses NCAA) that had a good solution.

A player running for a touchdown when A78 decides this is a good time to give opponent B78 a nice unsuspected de-cleater fifty yards away from the ball while it is still alive. Personal foul. How do you penalize if the result of the play is a touchdown? What if it results in a tackle at the one yard line still in A's possession?

Could someone refresh my memory? Thanks.

CANADIAN RULING:

A hit like this 50 yards away is definitely Unnecessary Roughness: 15 yards.

If A78 has already scored the touchdown, B can apply the 15 yards:

• on the convert
• on the ensuing kick-off
  • + if the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter ended with the TD, B can choose to apply the 15 yards on the KO to begin the next quarter (including the bridge from 2nd to 3rd)
  • + if the 4th quarter ended with the TD, B can choose to apply the 15 yards on the induced KO, or in OT, if the TD results in a tie game. If the convert breaks the tie, I will let B re-submit their answer to revert to the induced kick-off

If A78 is still in the field of play (no TD yet), but HAD reached the line to gain:

• 15 yards from where the ball was when the hit happened (called Point Ball Held), no TD, and 1D/10 after the 15 is applied

If A78 is still in the field of play (no TD yet), and HADN'T yet reached the line to gain:

• 15 yards from PLS, down repeated, or
• 15 yards from Point Ball Dead, AND roll the down

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Flagging this type behavior as a live ball foul, eliminating the score, will likely bring the standard list of predictable howls from the sideline affected, but the lesson learned by the offender, and his team, will last 1000 times longer.

The Referee, or the Umpire or BJ (4 or 5 man) in the case of an interception or advanced defensive fumble recovery, should remain behind the flow just to guard against this type situation.

Both excellent points. When I give pointers to our new WHs, I looked for these plays to make sure that they're not marching downfield too quickly. I learned in basketball, and apply to football, "you have to know how a guy got on the ground."

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Flagging this type behavior as a live ball foul, eliminating the score, will likely bring the standard list of predictable howls from the sideline affected, but the lesson learned by the offender, and his team, will last 1000 times longer.

The Referee, or the Umpire or BJ (4 or 5 man) in the case of an interception or advanced defensive fumble recovery, should remain behind the flow just to guard against this type situation.

As an older R, I find myself more and more remaining behind the flow. The excuse of anticipating a fumble return is a good one. Guard the goal line, the most important line on the field.

Seriously, though, whenever I have flagged this, I have heard 10 times more howls directed at the player than at any of the officials. The word "stupid" is usually the most common term heard.

I have given a "talking to" foul on simple pushes in the back that are far from the runner and don't bother the defender, but I never ignore it. I have even told some players who are close to a hit but change their mind, "smart choice in not hitting that guy."

The lead official, usually the BJ or a wing will have the runner and the rest of us need to be vigilant. An eye on the clock is important in this situation too. We record the time of the score in case the CO starts the clock on an untouched free kick that goes OOB.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Sonofanump

I read the title and pictured Steve Buscemi in Fargo putting his friend in the wood chipper.

Oh, back to the question, I agree with live ball foul from spot of foul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWFhDvURLg

A good wood chipper is a must in the north country.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Forksref has it exactly right as far as I'm concerned with this type of call, "talk to" if it deserves it, flag if it deserves a flag. His coach will be sure let him know how dumb he was when it costs them a score.

Fargo - certainly in my top 10 films of all time.
Love the way Margie points to the badge on her hat to emphasise she's the police. and Fargo is full of brilliant dialogue.....

Oh, he was a little guy... Kinda funny lookin'.

Say, Lou, didya hear the one about the guy who couldn't afford personalized plates, so he went and changed his name to J3L2404?

Oh, I just think I'm gonna barf.....Well, that passed. Now I'm hungry again.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I had this situation one time where I flagged an ear-hole cheap hit well behind the play. It didn't go for a TD, but it was a long gain negated. The coach starts screaming at his player, "How can you be so (bleepin') stupid. Do you realize you just cost us xx yards?" And then he says to me, "How could you possibly call that?"

Multiple Personality Disorder is a terrible thing.

[Warrenkicker]

I had a great experience this past season where I nailed a cheap shot quite a distance away from the play and to my surprise the coaches were getting the guilty party out of the game before we could get the initial signal for the foul made. Never heard a complaint and it was my sideline.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

Fargo - certainly in my top 10 films of all time.
Love the way Margie points to the badge on her hat to emphasise she's the police. and Fargo is full of brilliant dialogue.....

Two Flakes,
That snow scene by the road was shot about 3 miles from where I used to work. They had run out of snow in Minnesota so they came over here. The paper had an ad for extras for the movie. I decided not to quit my job to work at minimum wage for the movie. At the time, I didn't think the movie could be much if they were shooting here! It turns out to be a classic although I was a little put out at the extremely overdone accents.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Forksref

...The paper had an ad for extras for the movie. I decided not to quit my job to work at minimum wage for the movie.

REPLY: About fours years ago, I took a few hours off of work to be an 'extra' in an episode of "Law and Order: SVU" that was being filmed at a local school. I played the umpire in a HS football game (already had the costume) and was on the screen for no more than 2 or 3 seconds. But I did get to catch and throw with Mariska Hargitay and Christopher Meloni before the 'takes' began. Of course the 'role' of U was completely out of character since I'm a BJ/LJ normally.

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY:
Multiple Personality Disorder is a terrible thing.

Bob,

MPD is situational, usually correlated with the score or recent events on the field.