How Do You Penalize Chipping by the Offense?

[Mike L]

how about just calling it the way you see it so you don't have to play mind games with yourself.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I'm advocating seeing one thing well rather than trying to see two things: the foul and the ball's becoming dead.

You're advocating making one call regardless of what really happens: "The fact that it is unnecessary roughness means that it didn't have an effect on the play, so if there's any way you could see it as occurring after the ball became dead, that's how I would." If calling it like it is becomes a burden then maybe it's time to hand the flag to someone else.

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In the great majority of cases, a dead ball personal foul by the offense hurts them more than a live ball foul would. Are you saying you should skew the calls by favoring seeing it as a live ball foul just in those situations where it negates a long gain? If you did, don't you think it would encourage them to wait until the ball was clearly dead to get in a cheap shot, and wouldn't that be a bad development?

I can't believe you think allowing a score to stand by calling the earhole shot a dead ball foul is less of a hardship on A than negating the score. I'm saying KNOW what happens in the order it happens. That's your job.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Mike L

how about just calling it the way you see it so you don't have to play mind games with yourself.

That works just fine for me.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That works just fine for me.

Calling it as you see it works fine if you really do see it. But I'm afraid that some of you may not be actually seeing it, and then you're thinking ("mind games" again), "This foul must have occurred before the ball became dead, because I didn't hear a whistle, or because the ball just passed here x seconds ago, or because team A deserves to have this penalized as a live ball foul because they scored." And some of you may be looking away to see if the ball is still alive, and missing retaliation.

Robert

[Welpe]

Robert-

That is why there is a crew of us to get together and to figure these things out. A perfect example from last season:

I am working at umpire during a free kick. As I am trailing the play up the field, there is a PF foul by R well behind the play and the ball carrier ends up scoring a touch down. At the position I was in, I had the entire play perfectly bracketed. I could clearly see that the ball carrier was not in the end zone when the foul occurred. Neither of the two officials on the other side of the field had a good view of the ball carrier in relation to the end zone. I came in, offered the information that I had and we got the call correct.

If nobody in the crew has solid information, then you need to rely on crew, association or conference philosophy and to govern your call. I'm sorry if you don't like that but I really don't know what to tell you.

[mcbailey]

I'm not quite sure what all the fuss is about. I've called this from both the Umpire and wing positions, and never have I had a problem determining whether or not the ball was still live. Those that cannot figure it out are either out of position, not paying attention to their area or just flat out lazy.

I agree with the others....hang up the whistle & flag if you can't get this one right.