Chipping

Ed Hickland · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 30, 2007, 07:28am

I am interested in how others call this.

First and ten for A from their 30. A32 takes the ball and breaks free for an apparent touchdown. As A32 crosses B's 20 with no B player closer than 10 yards, A75 decides this is a good time to block B68 and proceeds to "clean his clock" with a legal block albeit B68 given his top speed might cause him to come in second to a turtle in a race.

A32 scores.

Would you call A75 for a live ball personal foul?

bigjohn · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 30, 2007, 07:58am

Personal Foul-9-4-3b Charging into an opponent that is obviously out of the play. TD called back spot foul.

http://www.nfhs.org/cgi-bin/ultimate...c;f=9;t=002788

JugglingReferee · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 30, 2007, 08:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

I am interested in how others call this.

First and ten for A from their 30. A32 takes the ball and breaks free for an apparent touchdown. As A32 crosses B's 20 with no B player closer than 10 yards, A75 decides this is a good time to block B68 and proceeds to "clean his clock" with a legal block albeit B68 given his top speed might cause him to come in second to a turtle in a race.

A32 scores.

Would you call A75 for a live ball personal foul?

CANADIAN RULING:

If B68 has no chance to be in the play, there is no need to "clock him". We are enforcing this as a live-ball UR foul. 15y from where the ball was when the hit happened. If that spot is the B-20:

No TD. Team A 1D/10 @ B-35.

FeetBallRef · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 30, 2007, 11:13am

Live ball personal foul, it comes back & take the 6 points off. We all know the Coach goes bonkers & there are schools that won't have our crew back because we called it by the rules.

Forksref · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Sep 30, 2007, 10:12pm

Yep. Personal Foul (and also for stupidity). Hopefully, the coach and team will blame the player and not the officials.

Kirby · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 01, 2007, 03:54pm

I've heard of philosophies from other officials that say try to make this a dead ball foul so that the TD will stand. That said, if the block occurs obviously while the ball is still live I will take the points off the board and penalize 15 yds from the spot of the foul and have done so a few times over the last several seasons. I have also penalized as a dead ball when it is very close as I do tend to agree with the aforementioned philosophy.

MD Longhorn · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 01, 2007, 04:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

I am interested in how others call this.

First and ten for A from their 30. A32 takes the ball and breaks free for an apparent touchdown. As A32 crosses B's 20 with no B player closer than 10 yards, A75 decides this is a good time to block B68 and proceeds to "clean his clock" with a legal block albeit B68 given his top speed might cause him to come in second to a turtle in a race.

A32 scores.

Would you call A75 for a live ball personal foul?

In NCAA, this is a LBF enforced as a DBF - succeeding spot. I like it better than your FED rule. Main reason? When NCAA had your rule, I found that most officials were extremely reluctant to penalize this behavior. Now, it's pretty uniformly enforced.

insatty · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 01, 2007, 04:55pm

Mike:

In NCAA, Live-ball fouls enforced as dead-ball fouls are generally non-contact and non-player fouls. Which NCAA rule dictates that a live-ball personal foul be enforced from the succeeding spot?

Rule 9-1-2-j applies to Ed's situation and the penalty is "15 yards from the basic spot or succeeding spot for deadball fouls and a first down for Team B fouls if the first down is not in conflict with other rules."

Bob M. · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 02, 2007, 07:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

In NCAA, this is a LBF enforced as a DBF - succeeding spot. I like it better than your FED rule. Main reason? When NCAA had your rule, I found that most officials were extremely reluctant to penalize this behavior. Now, it's pretty uniformly enforced.

REPLY: mbcrowder...when did this NCAA change occur? As far as I know, it's a live ball personal foul there too.

MJT · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 02, 2007, 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

In NCAA, this is a LBF enforced as a DBF - succeeding spot. I like it better than your FED rule. Main reason? When NCAA had your rule, I found that most officials were extremely reluctant to penalize this behavior. Now, it's pretty uniformly enforced.

LED's (Live ball fouls Enforced as Dead ball) in NCAA are non contact fouls. This is spelled out very clear in the NCAA Bin Book, which is specific to penalty enforcement.

rdfox · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 03, 2007, 12:50pm

As I mentioned in another thread, we have been instructed in Kentucky by the KHSAA to assess this on the try.

Bob M. · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 03, 2007, 01:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdfox

As I mentioned in another thread, we have been instructed in Kentucky by the KHSAA to assess this on the try.

REPLY: Are you talking about the play in Ed's original post?

rdfox · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 03, 2007, 05:36pm

Yes, the penalty is to be called as a personal foul under 9-4-3 (b) or (g) but then administered as a succeeding spot foul.

Ed Hickland · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 03, 2007, 07:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdfox

Yes, the penalty is to be called as a personal foul under 9-4-3 (b) or (g) but then administered as a succeeding spot foul.

I know many officials agree with that and indeed enforce it that way.

My question is now suppose the runner gets tackled on the one yard line. How do you enforce it then? Is it enforced from the spot of the foul, or, do you follow the revision and enforce from the one yard line?

If you say the latter, the offense gains an advantage because the defense made a spectacular play at the one yard line.

My personal opinion is the foul has no material affect on the play and should be penalized as a dead ball personal; however, with no rule support I must continue to enforce by current rules.