Kentucky won 45-44! 1 point safety

[Texas Aggie]

Not sure why you think I was getting snotty. Only asking for a specific clarification, and you made your assertion on language in the rule, which I think is reasonable. But I don't think that ends the discussion.

I did a search on the PDF, and there appears to be -- assuming all live ball penalized as dead ball have the phrase you listed -- 4 such fouls:

-- prohibited signal devices
-- illegal cleats
-- game administration interference
-- contacting an official

The problem I have here is that there are other examples of what we'd think were live ball fouls that are penalized as dead ball fouls:

-- diving into the end zone (under 9-2)
-- personal fouls on tries and field goals if good

Even though these two examples don't use the language you reference, they have to be considered live ball fouls that are penalized as dead ball fouls. 8-3-3-e says expressly that roughing the kicker is a live ball foul. I don't think that you can say, given the fact that this phrase isn't defined, that just because the wording of the penalty says PF on tries are enforced on a kickoff if the try is good that this isn't a live ball foul penalized as a dead ball foul -- since that's EXACTLY what it is!

You are correct on RTP, but I'd draw your attention to these and possibly other examples -- say a PF on a player out of the play during a scrimmage down. I had that penalty the other night in a game. I realize some of these penalty references say "dead ball fouls", but the definition of dead ball is "a ball not in play." These fouls can occur when the ball was in play.

I think ultimately, Roy is correct. They need to define the phrase and list the specific fouls. My point is that I don't think its unreasonable to think that there are other Live ball fouls penalized as dead ball fouls in cases where the language is not as you listed. If you can convince me otherwise, please do. I want to get the call right on the field, and if I'm wrong on here, that's fine.