1 point safety

[Jim S]

One of our crews had one in a JV game monday. Fumbled two point try comes to rest at the 2 and B kicks it into and thru the EZ. New force.
(They got it right!
There was some discusion as to whether the signal for this should be just one half of signal 6

[Grey Hare]

Jim......Could you provide more details as to why this is a "one point" safety. Thanks.
GH

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Grey Hare
Jim......Could you provide more details as to why this is a "one point" safety. Thanks.
GH

REPLY: I'll jump in...since the ball is at rest, there can be no question that B supplied the force that put the ball into their end zone. And since it was a TRY (you might have missed that) and the ball became dead behind B's goal line, A is awarded one point.

Assuming the kick was inadvertent, there's no foul to consider. If the kick was intentional, then the foul needs to be considered. Anyone want to take a shot at A's options if B's kick is ruled an illegal kick?

[jfurdell]

It's a foul by the defense, so it would be marked from the basic spot. If A's fumbled from behind the neutral zone, mark half the distance from the previous spot. If A fumbled from past the neutral zone, mark it half the distance from there (the end of the run).

(I did cheat and look that up.)

[Kirby]

With no books by my side here's my guess at what options A has

(1) Decline the illegal kick and take the results of the play which is a safety (1 point). The ball will be free kicked from the K40.
(2) Accept the penalty half the distance to the goalline from the basic spot (not specified in the original post) and re-try.
(3) Accept the results of the play (1 point safety) and enforce the 15-yard illegal kicking penalty from the succeeding spot. A will free kick from the B45.

[Gman34]

Originally posted by Kirby
With no books by my side here's my guess at what options A has

(1) Decline the illegal kick and take the results of the play which is a safety (1 point). The ball will be free kicked from the K40.
(2) Accept the penalty half the distance to the goalline from the basic spot (not specified in the original post) and re-try.
(3) Accept the results of the play (1 point safety) and enforce the 15-yard illegal kicking penalty from the succeeding spot. A will free kick from the B45.

Are you sure about where the ball would be kicked in 1 or 2?

[Jim S]

nobody said the kick was illegal.

[yankeesfan]

Originally posted by Kirby
With no books by my side here's my guess at what options A has

(1) Decline the illegal kick and take the results of the play which is a safety (1 point). The ball will be free kicked from the K40.
(2) Accept the penalty half the distance to the goalline from the basic spot (not specified in the original post) and re-try.
(3) Accept the results of the play (1 point safety) and enforce the 15-yard illegal kicking penalty from the succeeding spot. A will free kick from the B45.

if you can take option #3, why would you even consider option #1?

[ChickenOfNC]

We've had discussion about whether they could keep the score and enforce the penalty on the succeeding spot, as with a TD or FG. The book doesn't mention safeties, so we've interpreted that safeties don't apply. We've seen this alot with snaps over the punter's head and he just kicks it through the end zone.

How have you guys handled this?

[schwinn]

Originally posted by Kirby
With no books by my side here's my guess at what options A has

(1) Decline the illegal kick and take the results of the play which is a safety (1 point). The ball will be free kicked from the K40.
(2) Accept the penalty half the distance to the goalline from the basic spot (not specified in the original post) and re-try.
(3) Accept the results of the play (1 point safety) and enforce the 15-yard illegal kicking penalty from the succeeding spot. A will free kick from the B45.

I don't have my books here but I don't believe Option 3 is available to A. That option applies only to TD's, FG's and try's but not safeties.

[ChickenOfNC]

That's what I was thinking schwinn

[Kirby]

Jim S - Bob M. asked the question about penalty enforcement in his post if the kick had been ruled intentional.

========

Rule 8-3-5 talks about a foul by B during a successful try being enforced from the succeeding spot. I could find nothing in the rule book that defines "successful try."

I could also not find where it says that you can apply 8-3-5 to only TD's and FG's and not safeties during a try.

I guess it depends on how you interpret a "successful try."
Does a successful try take place when the result of the try is awarding points to A? Or does a successful try take place only when the result of the try is awarding points to A as a result of their intent to score (2 pts for TD, 1 pt for FG)?

[Edited by Kirby on Nov 3rd, 2005 at 09:38 AM]

[Kirby]

Originally posted by yankeesfan

if you can take option #3, why would you even consider option #1?

You would not take option 1, but in a situation where there is a foul by B during a scoring play by A they technically have 3 options.

[Warrenkicker]

Wow. Now I have flopped sides of the arguement. I first thought that a successful try was only a touchdown or a field goal. However in the table for point values under rule 8 it says that a safety is also a successful try. So the illegal kick would be enforced on the kickoff after a safety on a try using 10-5-1d.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by Gman34

Are you sure about where the ball would be kicked in 1 or 2?

Presumably you meant "1 or 3"?

In any event, the spots are correct. 8-3-9 specifies that after a try there will be a kickoff. 6-1-1a specifies that the free kick line for K during a kickoff is it's own 40-yard line.