Isn't this a Safety?

[mikeden]

While watching a Division IAA college football game with 16 seconds to go in the first half, its 4th down for Team A and they line up to punt. Team A's punter muffs the snap on his own 10 yard line, he chases after the ball and kicks it through the back of his own end zone from his own 2 yard line.

The referee threw a flag and I couldn't understand what he was saying on TV but said it was a loss of down and gave Team B the ball on Team A's 1 yard line for this. Team B then scored a TD on the next play with 9 seconds left in the half?

I thought this was a good play by the punter but apparently this is not a safety?

Can the forum please provide some clarification on this?

thank you in advance.

Mike

[bossman72]

not an official, but i've asked this same question before to officials i know.

this is illegal kicking by the punter at the 2. it's a 15 yd penalty (half the distance in this case) and a loss of down. the R made the correct call and enforcement.

[TXMike]

The result of the play is a safety so the defense had to choose between declining the penalty (which means they would get 2 points) or accepting the penalty (which means they get the ball at the 1 in this play).

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by mikeden

While watching a Division IAA college football game with 16 seconds to go in the first half, its 4th down for Team A and they line up to punt. Team A's punter muffs the snap on his own 10 yard line, he chases after the ball and kicks it through the back of his own end zone from his own 2 yard line.

The referee threw a flag and I couldn't understand what he was saying on TV but said it was a loss of down and gave Team B the ball on Team A's 1 yard line for this. Team B then scored a TD on the next play with 9 seconds left in the half?

I thought this was a good play by the punter but apparently this is not a safety?

Can the forum please provide some clarification on this?

thank you in advance.

Mike

Based on the recap I read about the game, this sounds like another NDSU fan out there. Go Bison! They are one of the great stories of college football this year. They are in the 5th year of their D-I transition so are not eligible for the playoffs even though they are ranked #1 in one of the DI-AA polls.

They are 3-1 in the past 2 years against DI-A team losing only to Minnesota lear year on a blocked punt. They beat Ball State in a close one last year, Central Michigan (undefeated in MAC play this year) big 44-10, and Minnesota (a very bad Big 10 team but a good win nonetheless). Their HC was previously the DC at Nebraska so some think he may be in line to replace Callahan.

The basketball team also has big wins over ranked Wisconsin and Marquette the past 2 seasons. They open at Florida next Friday and with a young Gator team you never know!! It's great to be a Bison fan right now!

[With_Two_Flakes]

Originally Posted by mikeden

I thought this was a good play by the punter but apparently this is not a safety?

It is a Safety since that is the result of the play. But it is also a foul for Illegal Kicking and this is one of the handful of fouls that carry a loss of down in addition to yardage.

In the situation described, NCAA Rules 9-4-4 applies and the penalty is 15 yds and a loss of down. Note that this rule does have an exception - no loss of down if the foul is beyond the NZ on a legal scrimmage kick.
Depending on the game situation, Team B might take the 2 points for the Safety or (as in this case) take the result of the Penalty enforcement.

You could probably come up with a game situation where it might be better for Team B to take the 2 pts for the safety and then get possession again after the subsequent kickoff from the 20.

[Welpe]

In NCAA, is the ball dead when an illegal kick occurs? I thought I read that somewhere on one of these forums.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Welpe

In NCAA, is the ball dead when an illegal kick occurs? I thought I read that somewhere on one of these forums.

There is a difference between an illegal kick and illegally kicking the ball.

Ex: On a punt attempt the punter scrambles and crosses the LOS before kicking. This is an illegal kick and the ball becomes dead. Or on a punt attempt the punter muffs the snap and kicks the ball as it is rolling in the ground, this is illegally kicking the ball and the ball is NOT dead. at the moment of the kick.

[Welpe]

I see, thanks Mike.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by TXMike

There is a difference between an illegal kick and illegally kicking the ball.

Ex: On a punt attempt the punter scrambles and crosses the LOS before kicking. This is an illegal kick and the ball becomes dead. Or on a punt attempt the punter muffs the snap and kicks the ball as it is rolling in the ground, this is illegally kicking the ball and the ball is NOT dead. at the moment of the kick.

Is this spelled out separately in the rules or AR's? What are the differences?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by With_Two_Flakes

In the situation described, NCAA Rules 9-4-4 applies and the penalty is 15 yds and a loss of down. Note that this rule does have an exception - no loss of down if the foul is beyond the NZ on a legal scrimmage kick.

I'm trying to figure out what the difference would be if there were no such exception. Are they implying that in the absence of such an exception, if K kicked their own kick on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down that was already on R's side of the neutral zone, that the enforcement would make it K's ball?

Robert

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I'm trying to figure out what the difference would be if there were no such exception. Are they implying that in the absence of such an exception, if K kicked their own kick on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd down that was already on R's side of the neutral zone, that the enforcement would make it K's ball?

Robert

No that is not what is being said. The rules regarding who will have possession of the ball are not related to the illegally kicking of the ball. ALl the exception says is that there will not be a LOD should the penalty be accepted . Ex: 3d and 25 at the A-10. Team A quick kicks and ball barely makes it to the A-20 before coming to earth. A45 illegally kicks the bounding ball at the A-20 and it flies OOB at the A-30. B can choose: Take the ball at the A-30 (result of play) or back A up to the A-5 and give them a 3d and 30.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Is this spelled out separately in the rules or AR's? What are the differences?

They are prety clear in rules and ARs. The essential difference is that illegally kickking the ball would require a ball to be "loose" when it is kicked whereas an "illegal kick" is just a place kick, punt or drop kick not made according to rule.

[MJT]

This is a great rule difference between NF and NCAA. I wish NF would have the same rule so the enforcement and LOD could result in B taking the ball at the 1. In NF, this is not a LOD foul.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MJT

This is a great rule difference between NF and NCAA. I wish NF would have the same rule so the enforcement and LOD could result in B taking the ball at the 1. In NF, this is not a LOD foul.

Do you think the threat of loss of down is necessary to discourage this tactic so badly? It doesn't look like that big a tactical advantage.

[reddevil19]

Of all the times I've seen the play described in the OP, I don't remember the punter ever kicking the ball back out of the EZ from anywhere other than in the EZ. If the OP scenario was changed to illegally kicking the ball out of the EZ from WITHIN the EZ, then that woud be an automatic safety correct?