A case for encroachment as a live ball foul.

[wisref2]

Cool - a chance to use my favorite saying, something I say to my crew all the time as a whitehat:

"You're gonna get yelled at anyway, so you might as well get yelled at for the doing the right thing."

[kraine27]

In my first varsity game, I failed to blow a play dead where the tight end didn't place his mouth piece in his mouth at the snap and that play went 85yds for a touchdown. We brought that play back and I'm sure I won't make that mistake ever again.

[Texas Aggie]

I agree with the others. You have to follow your rules code. However, as the title suggests, this is a good reason for FED to adopt the NCAA rule in this case. This rule has a lot of potential for abuse. If the defense sees that a wideout is uncovered (by the defense) they can simply jump offsides and take the penalty -- who wouldn't take 5 yards over a TD? This can be coached.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I agree with the others. You have to follow your rules code. However, as the title suggests, this is a good reason for FED to adopt the NCAA rule in this case. This rule has a lot of potential for abuse. If the defense sees that a wideout is uncovered (by the defense) they can simply jump offsides and take the penalty -- who wouldn't take 5 yards over a TD? This can be coached.

The rule has worked fine in 48 states all these years. While I would like to see the live ball foul, I don't think it's coming anytime soon.

I've now told 3 rookie officials (wow, I've broken in 3 of the 4 officials on my crew, hadn't thought about that) about the mistake I made the first season I worked back in the days of stirrups.

I did exactly what the OP did, except my play (fortunately) was not run for a TD. My WH was pissed, told me that we didn't play on Saturday and Sunday, and that I should open the rulebook before I got him seriously yelled at.

(Not to wing it off topic further, but my other "rookie advice" is that I tell my deep guys that the worst thing that can happen is an IW on a muffed fair catch and I remind them that they need to be patient and remember that the rule protects the player, not the whistle. I've not done that myself, but have seen it enough to know the consequences and fallout.)

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I agree with the others. You have to follow your rules code. However, as the title suggests, this is a good reason for FED to adopt the NCAA rule in this case. This rule has a lot of potential for abuse. If the defense sees that a wideout is uncovered (by the defense) they can simply jump offsides and take the penalty -- who wouldn't take 5 yards over a TD? This can be coached.

It's been there for ~40 years, and you're right, and they're "right" too. In NCAA it just takes a little more to do it; the offside player has to commit encroachment by contact, or better yet (to get att'n), snatching the ball from the center. Yeah, great "defense" against a quick play.

(BTW, so-called "cynical" offsides in rugby to kill a team's momentum has been a similar problem in that it's hard to penalize equitably.)

During the 1960s (for I don't know how long) Fed had the same rule as now, except that if the ball was snapped too quickly for the whistle to be blown, play was to be allowed to continue. So you essentially allowed advantage or no advantage depending how quick you were with the whistle!

One reason I believe was cited for adopting kill-the-ball was to avoid situations in which a player's entering the NZ blocked an opponent's view of the ball, and then the opponent went offside too. It seemed wrong to allow a futile play to proceed, and also to have the fouls offset, when the second player's encroachment on the NZ was caused by the opponent's going offside first. Killing the ball on the first encroachment also avoided the judgement of "spontaneous reaction charge", and it relieved team A from putting the ball into play quickly just to draw the penalty. So I can't say Fed has the wrong idea, even though intuition says to allow the nonoffending team a choice.

Robert

[buckrog64]

Nah, it won't be fun, but it has to come back. Then the next possible moment, have a discussion with your crew and get some things clear. All part of the learning curve. Stuff does happen.

[wheels]

IMHO, in HS it's a safety issue as players are not that skilled to play though encroachment. The offense lines in the NFL and college are far better. At the HS level I could see more PFs and injuries. I would love it to be live ball, for a free play for the offense.

[JRutledge]

You can always waive off a flag. I guess the issue is how far off sides as the player. That might determine a lot of what we should do. If the official did not shut the play down properly, it is kind of hard to come back and be so technical with the rule when the official was not technical with their mechanics. I do not think there is a right or wrong answer to this question other than I would not use the NCAA application of the NF rule.

Peace