25/40 Play clock

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by tomes1978

Another issue is getting a chain crew that will hustle. That's the hard part!!!!!

But they've been doing it for 30 years...

[jTheUmp]

The NCAA games around here all have at least 4 ball people (honestly, the softball/women's basketball players seem to be the most attentive... good luck if it's the wrestlers).

Two per sideline, one standing with the LOS official, one near the deep official. Ideally, each one will have one ball for each team. Ball goes OOB, the wing official turns and gets a new ball from the nearest ball person (usually the one nearest the LOS official) and relays it in to me, and the other ball person gets to hunt down the one that went OOB. We can get away with as few as three game balls per team (one per sideline, plus the one in play. For Team B, keep the 3rd ball on the pressbox side, since we always get a new ball from the pressbox side after a change of possession)

Of course, this requires 4 attentive ball persons, and 5 game balls per team... neither of which are going to happen in a high school game.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

The NCAA games around here all have at least 4 ball people (honestly, the softball/women's basketball players seem to be the most attentive... good luck if it's the wrestlers).

Two per sideline, one standing with the LOS official, one near the deep official. Ideally, each one will have one ball for each team. Ball goes OOB, the wing official turns and gets a new ball from the nearest ball person (usually the one nearest the LOS official) and relays it in to me, and the other ball person gets to hunt down the one that went OOB. We can get away with as few as three game balls per team (one per sideline, plus the one in play. For Team B, keep the 3rd ball on the pressbox side, since we always get a new ball from the pressbox side after a change of possession)

Of course, this requires 4 attentive ball persons, and 5 game balls per team... neither of which are going to happen in a high school game.

That's how our college games go as well although each ball person will have balls for the same team. That way the wing can turn to the right official and reduce the likelihood of getting the wrong ball. If the ball boys have to keep track of which ball belongs to which team they will send the wrong ball in a couple times. But both systems work fine.

We usually have 2 or 3 ball kids on each side for HS games and most teams check 3-5 balls each game so it's definitely possible. It's been that way for my near 20-year experience of officiating HS so we are used to it. It could be hard if you have no ball persons today and each team only checks one ball. But it's definitely doable because there are plenty of kids who would love to do it and each team has 8-10 usable balls. Just go to a practice to know that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

That's how our college games go as well although each ball person will have balls for the same team. That way the wing can turn to the right official and reduce the likelihood of getting the wrong ball. If the ball boys have to keep track of which ball belongs to which team they will send the wrong ball in a couple times. But both systems work fine.

We usually have 2 or 3 ball kids on each side for HS games and most teams check 3-5 balls each game so it's definitely possible. It's been that way for my near 20-year experience of officiating HS so we are used to it. It could be hard if you have no ball persons today and each team only checks one ball. But it's definitely doable because there are plenty of kids who would love to do it and each team has 8-10 usable balls. Just go to a practice to know that.

And that is why many of us are concerned about this new rule. What you are talking about as if it is the norm is not the norm or will not be the norm for many of us. We still have no policy to have a uniformed response to changing balls. I would love it if they did just partially what college does, but there is no such policy or action that everyone seems to agree on to use. So every week will be an adventure.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Worked a few scrimmages and the rule does work for the most part. The issue is going to be when the situations take place that happens in real game situations. And my biggest concern is end of game situations where teams might just use this to milk the clock.

I still think like most brand new NF rules, this was not very well thought out and certainly did not think of the possible application of these rules. It is one thing to say what jersey cannot be worn or what types of jewelry needs to be taken off, those are easy fixes. This takes a series of things and situations that could cause problems. If you do not have a ball boy system in place, this rule is going to have very inconsistent application. If you have no on-field game clocks across the board, you will have inconsistent application.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Worked a few scrimmages and the rule does work for the most part. The issue is going to be when the situations take place that happens in real game situations. And my biggest concern is end of game situations where teams might just use this to milk the clock.

I still think like most brand new NF rules, this was not very well thought out and certainly did not think of the possible application of these rules. It is one thing to say what jersey cannot be worn or what types of jewelry needs to be taken off, those are easy fixes. This takes a series of things and situations that could cause problems. If you do not have a ball boy system in place, this rule is going to have very inconsistent application. If you have no on-field game clocks across the board, you will have inconsistent application.

Peace

It was extremely thought out. Indiana tried to do an experiment 4 years ago but didn't go through the proper channels so we had to wait a year. In the past 3 years I believe at least 3 or 4 states have experimented with it.

Your issues all seem to be very local and things that should have been addressed regardless of the 40 second play clock. Bad ball boys. One ball per team the entire game. Sounds like a problem that definitely needs a solution and the rule indirectly solves it (not the intent but definitely a benefit). If your state doesn't recognize that and do something about those issues that is a problem with your state and not the NFHS rule.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

It was extremely thought out. Indiana tried to do an experiment 4 years ago but didn't go through the proper channels so we had to wait a year. In the past 3 years I believe at least 3 or 4 states have experimented with it.Your issues all seem to be very local and things that should have been addressed regardless of the 40 second play clock. Bad ball boys. One ball per team the entire game. Sounds like a problem that definitely needs a solution and the rule indirectly solves it (not the intent but definitely a benefit). If your state doesn't recognize that and do something about those issues that is a problem with your state and not the NFHS rule.

Actually, "Time will tell, how well thought out these changes were", but they are what they are, and we need to adjust to them, as best we can. Much like Real Estate, 99.9% of the "Interscholastic Level" of football, is "Local", and it will likely be quicker/longer for individual areas to fully adapt.

Where "every week will be an adventure" it's likely the skill, common sense, and sound judgment of Field Officials will provide the glue that holds things together, as it has done (reasonably well) for the last 100, or so, seasons.

There may very well likely be additional "tweaks", "recommendations" and possible adjustments, but like water, different skill levels of football eventually adjust to seek their "proper level", as happily yet another season unfolds.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

It was extremely thought out. Indiana tried to do an experiment 4 years ago but didn't go through the proper channels so we had to wait a year. In the past 3 years I believe at least 3 or 4 states have experimented with it.

Your issues all seem to be very local and things that should have been addressed regardless of the 40 second play clock. Bad ball boys. One ball per team the entire game. Sounds like a problem that definitely needs a solution and the rule indirectly solves it (not the intent but definitely a benefit). If your state doesn't recognize that and do something about those issues that is a problem with your state and not the NFHS rule.

All the states that did the experimental rule had people that are college officials as their administrator of the sport.

Also not sure what you mean by very local? You mean the entire state? I was not referring to my immediate area. You realize I live in some of the most affluent areas in the state of Illinois and those schools do not have play clocks and in some cases turf. But turf is very common here and that was often a bone of contention with school districts to provide. Most of the schools also are bigger schools that are like from 6A to 8A (we have 8 classes) with over 2000 students (or more) in those schools depending on the school's size. Again, we do not have ball boys. Worked two scrimmages and no mention of having any ball boys. So you keep trying to convince me of something that no one has a plan for. The state's solution was to approve more balls per game (something we already did BTW for bad weather games). It might have been well thought out at the local level with the people doing the experimental rules, but that does not mean it was well thought out by the others. Again, not the biggest deal, but there we did not take the college approach to this which is what my issue was from jump. And to me, this does not make everything perfect in football. IT is just a rule change. All NF rules changes are not well thought out. And it really was not well thought out if lower levels have 2 officials working games in many cases. Heck, we do not even have game clocks in many lower-level games at all. But hey, it was well thought out right?

Just like other things the state could have said or put in a procedure for ball boys just like they do when it comes chain crews. They have a suggested procedure that we as officials can refer to and it is so common we do not have to even address basic things.

Peace