LeBron Travel

[potato]

Originally Posted by APG

The NBA and the WNBA rule is the same.

There are situations where what is illegal under NFHS/NCAA rules is completely legal under the pro rul set. There are also situations that are completely legal under NFHS/NCAA rules that would be illegal under pro rule sets.

are you sure NBA is the same with WNBA rules, the summary says something about if the player catches the ball in the air, lands 1 foot 1st the other later, the later foot is the pivot in WNBA.

https://www.google.com.my/url?url=ht...d3wFx39cCn1H8g

[APG]

Originally Posted by potato

are you sure NBA is the same with WNBA rules, the summary says something about if the player catches the ball in the air, lands 1 foot 1st the other later, the later foot is the pivot in WNBA.

https://www.google.com.my/url?url=ht...d3wFx39cCn1H8g

Yes I'm sure. In your scenario, the first foot would be the pivot after the second foot landed

[Pantherdreams]

Thread brings up some premises I find interesting and think about a lot. Lets start with 2 and move on from there:

Premise 1: In relationship to the idea of marginal travels "I would rather miss one that was, then call one that wasn't."

Premise 2: Most travels happen when defense requires offense do something difficult or challenging generally on stops or finishes.

Thoughts on each:

P1 - I agree with the spirit of this premise when there are very few what we consider marginal travels in a game. As some posters have stated maybe 1-2 per game. My question becomes what is the number limit before you stop being comfortable? Is there one? If there are 5 marginal travels per game and you pass on them? If there are 20? You see where this is going . . . if we are not talking about missing/passing on 1 or 2 calls per game to avoid 1 incorrect made call, that is very different (In my mind) then missing/passing on a much larger number. What is tipping point? When is better to call 1 that might not be but make sure you get the 4 or 19 or x that were? We're not weighing 1 incorrect made call against 1 incorrect no call. What happens when the number of incorrect marginal no calls drastically outweighs what would be your 1 or small number of incorrect calls made?

P2 - I think that most travels marginal or otherwise happen on the defened take off when players are playing static 1 on 1 face up to the basket. The ball has to be released from the hand before the back foot is lifted. But i feel despite the way the rule is written and without caseplay support we as officials as a whole are much more generous with this then the language says.

[just another ref]

There are no marginal travels. It was either a travel or it wasn't. The danger comes when you start saying it's okay to pass on a "marginal" travel, as opposed to some other kind of travel. This provokes the debate what is marginal? Call the ones you see, and pass on the ones you're not certain about. And this provokes the debate of how certain one must be, which leads some to use percentages.


Just call the game and be prepared to deal with the fallout. There generally will be some, no matter what you do or don't do.

[jpgc99]

my point was not to intentionally pass on a travel deemed "marginal." If I see a travel, I'm calling it. But if I am not certain, I'm not calling it. There are no percentages. In my judgment, it is either a travel or it is legal. That's as simple as it is during the game.

When I grade my film, it is a missed call either way. But it is easier to explain a missed travel than calling something that isnt there. This also makes it easier to improve... Perhaps my positioning was poor or I had a bad angle. I can work on these things to get better at picking travels up.

But if I am calling travels that aren't there, I'm guessing and making stuff up. Credibility goes down quickly when you guess.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

my point was not to intentionally pass on a travel deemed "marginal." If I see a travel, I'm calling it. But if I am not certain, I'm not calling it. There are no percentages. In my judgment, it is either a travel or it is legal. That's as simple as it is during the game.

When I grade my film, it is a missed call either way. But it is easier to explain a missed travel than calling something that isnt there. This also makes it easier to improve... Perhaps my positioning was poor or I had a bad angle. I can work on these things to get better at picking travels up.

But if I am calling travels that aren't there, I'm guessing and making stuff up. Credibility goes down quickly when you guess.

I guess we can use whatever language we like but we know over the course of the game there are going to be travels we miss (watching contact, screened out, etc). There are also going to be (by letter of the rule) a number of plays that are travels but at game speed we just aren't sure enough/ too close to call. When we go back to the video we can see it or even in some cases have to slow it down enough to see it, but at game time we can't be/weren't certain enough.

I guess my feeling is this. If when you look at tape you see a number that were missed in real time because of real time there has to be an adjustment made. Now that could be a number of things:

A) Maybe the official in question just needs to get better at anticipating or looking for cues. Just make note of what they see and refine their craft.

B) Maybe the adjustment is to the rules. To eliminate guess work or plays that are difficult to the naked eye at game speed.

C) The adjustment might be to our expectation of clear and unclear. That if we are missing a volume a unsure travels, maybe officials need to be less sure and live with getting one wrong.

Lots of ways to skin a cat. I will just go on record as saying almost any high school game down to grass roots I watch from a fans perspective (NCAA and NBA are a little different animals in that they have mandates/ directives careers etc) officials are passing/ not seeing/ unsure/ mariginalizing - use whatever language you want - Travels on the take off. Unless there is a blatantly clear extra step in my experience watching games, officials will not or are at best very hesitant to make calls when the ball is still in contact with the hand when the back foot comes up to start a dribble.

I'm not saying for game management sake or what they can clearly see that this is wrong. Just that in an age where everything can be taken back and rewatched. If something illegal by rule is happening and not being called properly that is problematic and adjustments need to be made.

If you owned a buisness and you had a policy that was being ignored or couldn't be complied with you would either change the policy, change directives leading to its enforcement, or make sure it was being followed. You wouldn't maintain a policy that existed only as a written statement somewhere.

[so cal lurker]

Phil Jackson on LBJ and travelling . . .

Phil Jackson: LeBron James travels every other time he catches the ball - LA Times