LeBron Travel

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And you little scholastic guys also call a lot of things that are not violations. But that frustrates me too. Like the constant travel I see for a bobble of the ball. I have seen that called about 3 or 4 times already this summer. I can guarantee I will see that called several more times over the course of a summer, let alone over the course of the year.

Oh, and the NBA has different rules, just like the NFL has different rules than the lower levels. It happens, get over it.

Peace

I simply answered the question posed. I'm interested to hear if anyone would pass on this in a college or high school game. I think AremRed implied he would pass....

I also said that I don't work the NBA... I don't know the NBA travel rule and have no need to know it.

Note, too, that I have never been one to comment on the microscopic travels frequently posted here. I don't go looking for travels and probably call fewer than most all posters here. I can guarantee I miss more travels than calling travels that aren't there. But I'm also fairly certain I would call this one.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I simply answered the question posed. I'm interested to hear if anyone would pass on this in a college or high school game. I think AremRed implied he would pass....

I also said that I don't work the NBA... I don't know the NBA travel rule and have no need to know it.

Note, too, that I have never been one to comment on the microscopic travels frequently posted here. I don't go looking for travels and probably call fewer than most all posters here. I can guarantee I miss more travels than calling travels that aren't there. But I'm also fairly certain I would call this one.

What some of us are saying is look for elephants, not ants. As I mentioned earlier, the play in question is very close under the NBA code. If it's that close err on the side of letting it go. We'd say the same thing if he took one fewer step and this was an NF or NCAA game. If it's that close you'd better be sure when it's a real speed since you only have one chance to get it right.

I know I've missed travels in similar situations in NF and NCAA games but I also know why: If someone is unguarded and 50 feet from the basket I'm assuming they can dribble the ball without tripping over themselves. I'll glance up court to see if there are any match-ups that need watching. The few times I've missed a "mini-travel" for that reason I've admitted as much to the affected coach. They may not have been thrilled but they also know I was still engaged in the game.

[Pantherdreams]

Common attitude amongst officials on this board and whom I've met, in regards to traveling and violations. Is if you are sure you make sure that you get it and clean it up, and if not you let it go. Also most officials would rather not call something then call something wrong. Finally whether most officials call it game management or advantage disadvantage they apply the same ideas we use on calling fouls to calling violations.

I agree with aspects of this viewpoint and accept that when in Rome . . .

My only concern seems to be the idea that if you call it and get it wrong that is somehow worse than no calling/missing and call and being found wrong later. Maybe in terms of game management or perception coaches/fans are more accepting of no calls/missed calls than incorrect game calls.

ie. If Johnny doesn't travel and I call it a travel. That is somehow worse than Johnny traveling but me missing it/ no calling it.

I get the in the moment one looks worse, but when analysing tape and performance aren't both mistakes? At some point getting 99% of the calls you make correct, but that tape showing you that you are no calling or missing calls that are violations, there has to be some balance. If lets say 40% of the take offs by players in a game are travels by rule, but only 5% are blatant 35% were close in real time (too close to call?). If we get all the blatant ones we all agree and everyone is happy. There are still 35% of 1 particular action that we are no calling incorrectly to avoid incorrectly calling one. Isn't that a problem too? IME it certainly doesn't get treated as a big deal.

This has been me rambling. Sorry for the length as I try to work through what I am thinking on this issue.

[potato]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Common attitude amongst officials on this board and whom I've met, in regards to traveling and violations. Is if you are sure you make sure that you get it and clean it up, and if not you let it go. Also most officials would rather not call something then call something wrong. Finally whether most officials call it game management or advantage disadvantage they apply the same ideas we use on calling fouls to calling violations.

I agree with aspects of this viewpoint and accept that when in Rome . . .

My only concern seems to be the idea that if you call it and get it wrong that is somehow worse than no calling/missing and call and being found wrong later. Maybe in terms of game management or perception coaches/fans are more accepting of no calls/missed calls than incorrect game calls.

ie. If Johnny doesn't travel and I call it a travel. That is somehow worse than Johnny traveling but me missing it/ no calling it.

I get the in the moment one looks worse, but when analysing tape and performance aren't both mistakes? At some point getting 99% of the calls you make correct, but that tape showing you that you are no calling or missing calls that are violations, there has to be some balance. If lets say 40% of the take offs by players in a game are travels by rule, but only 5% are blatant 35% were close in real time (too close to call?). If we get all the blatant ones we all agree and everyone is happy. There are still 35% of 1 particular action that we are no calling incorrectly to avoid incorrectly calling one. Isn't that a problem too? IME it certainly doesn't get treated as a big deal.

This has been me rambling. Sorry for the length as I try to work through what I am thinking on this issue.

Maybe officials nowadays are so worried about the price they have to pay on their careers for a few wrong calls that they rather pass a not so sure call than risk calling it.

But to me, making a bad call is as bad as not calling a bad foul, just that a bad call would be more prominent compared to an uncalled foul. Both can actually cost the other team their game.

Especially in todays world where replays can be easily accessed, & referees judged, compared to back in the 60's. Also making unsure calls on the leagues best player poses much risk to one's career.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by potato

Maybe officials nowadays are so worried about the price they have to pay on their careers for a few wrong calls that they rather pass a not so sure call than risk calling it.

But to me, making a bad call is as bad as not calling a bad foul, just that a bad call would be more prominent compared to an uncalled foul. Both can actually cost the other team their game.

Especially in todays world where replays can be easily accessed, & referees judged, compared to back in the 60's. Also making unsure calls on the leagues best player poses much risk to one's career.

Yes, in your example missing a 'bad (obvious) foul' is bad. Calling a foul that isn't there is also bad.

But on a marginal travel, it is worse to call one that is not there vs not calling one that is there.

[potato]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Yes, in your example missing a 'bad (obvious) foul' is bad. Calling a foul that isn't there is also bad.

But on a marginal travel, it is worse to call one that is not there vs not calling one that is there.

but most of the time, the extra steps travel happens when Defensive doing a great job at stopping the offense, the offense got caught in traffic and forced to take an extra step to gain advantage over the defender & scores.

if you play basketball you'll know as a defender when the ball handler ended their dribble you can easily tell when they are going up, but you will be totally caught by surprise when the ball handler takes an illegal extra step to get past the defender for an easy layup. that's an unfair advantage over the defender, especially it's a championship deciding game like NBA Finals. And it doesn't just happen once or twice in 1 game.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

What some of us are saying is look for elephants, not ants. As I mentioned earlier, the play in question is very close under the NBA code. If it's that close err on the side of letting it go. We'd say the same thing if he took one fewer step and this was an NF or NCAA game. If it's that close you'd better be sure when it's a real speed since you only have one chance to get it right.

I know I've missed travels in similar situations in NF and NCAA games but I also know why: If someone is unguarded and 50 feet from the basket I'm assuming they can dribble the ball without tripping over themselves. I'll glance up court to see if there are any match-ups that need watching. The few times I've missed a "mini-travel" for that reason I've admitted as much to the affected coach. They may not have been thrilled but they also know I was still engaged in the game.

I agree with this. Good point on looking up court for potential matchups in this situation, and potentially missing as a result.

[#olderthanilook]

I also find it interesting that the trailing official probably couldn't see the status of the ball - unless he has x ray vision and can see right through LeBron's torso.

Can't (DON'T) call what you can't see.

[JMUplayer]

I can live with a small travel but the illegal screens especially the ones golden state sets.

That last 3 that curry hit BOTH screeners slammed their shoulder into the defender.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JMUplayer

I can live with a small travel but the illegal screens especially the ones golden state sets.

That last 3 that curry hit BOTH screeners slammed their shoulder into the defender.

NBA said Lee's screen was illegal but only because he grabbed Shumpert's leg after setting a legal screen.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

What some of us are saying is look for elephants, not ants. As I mentioned earlier, the play in question is very close under the NBA code. If it's that close err on the side of letting it go. We'd say the same thing if he took one fewer step and this was an NF or NCAA game. If it's that close you'd better be sure when it's a real speed since you only have one chance to get it right.

I know I've missed travels in similar situations in NF and NCAA games but I also know why: If someone is unguarded and 50 feet from the basket I'm assuming they can dribble the ball without tripping over themselves. I'll glance up court to see if there are any match-ups that need watching. The few times I've missed a "mini-travel" for that reason I've admitted as much to the affected coach. They may not have been thrilled but they also know I was still engaged in the game.

This

The reason we miss so many travels is probably cuz we are too busy reffing the defense.