The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 10:39am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,557
LeBron travel

YouTube - Lebron James 4 Step Layup.MOV

LMAO
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 10:49am
APG's Avatar
APG APG is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
The guy in the video is focusing on the wrong issue in the video. It's close, but I would have judged that LeBron gathered the ball with his left foot on the ground...especially in real time. The issue is if you consider the "jump stop" to be "close enough" to simultaneous. I dunno who was working the game, but it might of been "close enough" thus the rest of the play was legal as he could pivot on either foot. On replay and slowed down, LeBron's first step is with his right foot, then his left thus establishing his right foot as the pivot. The subsequent pivot on the left was a travel.

We should also add the disclaimer that we can't for sure determine when the ball was gathered and the dribble ended from the angle given as our view is obscured by LeBron's body and that the best view would be from the opposite angle.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.


Last edited by APG; Thu May 12, 2011 at 10:56am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 11:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
The guy in the video is focusing on the wrong issue in the video. It's close, but I would have judged that LeBron gathered the ball with his left foot on the ground...especially in real time.


We should also add the disclaimer that we can't for sure determine when the ball was gathered and the dribble ended from the angle given as our view is obscured by LeBron's body and that the best view would be from the opposite angle.
The players have really mastered the art of gathering the ball at that level. Cant travel if they arent holding a live ball inbounds...
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 11:14am
APG's Avatar
APG APG is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by tref View Post
The players have really mastered the art of gathering the ball at that level. Cant travel if they arent holding a live ball inbounds...
Exactly...and with the speed they move with at that level, it makes it more difficult to determine if a player gathers the ball with both feet in the air or with a foot on the ground. Players have mastered the gather...as you said...with a foot on the ground, taking their two step count...and going up with the ball...which gives a lot of "misinformed" fans the appearance that players are taking three steps.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 11:55am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,557
Also remember that the NBA travel rule is different than the Fed rule, iirc.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 12:04pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,221
It's the NBA. The stars get to travel. If you're going to watch it, you live with it. It just is what it is. And 1 basketball entertainment.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 12:05pm
APG's Avatar
APG APG is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Also remember that the NBA travel rule is different than the Fed rule, iirc.
The part that's different is that a player is allowed two steps after gathering the ball...thus a player can gather the ball with a foot on the floor, and take two steps. The second step will establish the first step as the pivot...where as the second step would establish a traveling call under NF/NCAA rules. A player could also take a step, then jump stop and land simultaneously and not be able to pivot. Under NF/NCAA rules, the jump stop would be illegal no matter what.

The other part that is different is that a player upon gathering the ball can not touch the floor consequently with the same foot.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 12:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
Also remember that the NBA travel rule is different than the Fed rule, iirc.
Section VII—Pivot
a. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than
once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with the
floor.
b. If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before
the pivot foot is raised off the floor. If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass
or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.
If he fails to follow these guidelines, he has committed a traveling violation.

Section XIII—Traveling
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step.
The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.
The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.
A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.
A player who lands with one foot first may only pivot using that foot.
A progressing player who jumps off one foot on the first step may land with both feet simultaneously for the second step. In this situation, the player may not pivot with either foot and if one or both feet leave the floor the ball must be released before either returns to the floor.
c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.
d. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
e. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.
f. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.
g. A player may not be the first to touch his own pass unless the ball touches his backboard, basket ring or another player.
h. Upon ending his dribble or gaining control of the ball, a player may not touch the floor consecutively with the same foot (hop).
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 12:46pm
CLH CLH is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Send a message via AIM to CLH Send a message via Yahoo to CLH
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
The part that's different is that a player is allowed two steps after gathering the ball...thus a player can gather the ball with a foot on the floor, and take two steps. The second step will establish the first step as the pivot...where as the second step would establish a traveling call under NF/NCAA rules. A player could also take a step, then jump stop and land simultaneously and not be able to pivot. Under NF/NCAA rules, the jump stop would be illegal no matter what.

The other part that is different is that a player upon gathering the ball can not touch the floor consequently with the same foot.
And thus, this is a legal play...
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 01:28pm
APG's Avatar
APG APG is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
It's the NBA. The stars get to travel. If you're going to watch it, you live with it. It just is what it is. And 1 basketball entertainment.
Guess that's why I've seen LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant, Rose, etc all called for travels and discontinued dribbles and offensive fouls...at key points even during the season?

I guess NBA officials didn't get the same memo you did.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 01:33pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,879
+1+1+1+1+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Guess that's why I've seen LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant, Rose, etc all called for travels and discontinued dribbles and offensive fouls...at key points even during the season?

I guess NBA officials didn't get the same memo you did.
And being called for all these several times!!!!!

I do not think he watches the NBA, he just watches it on SportsCenter.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 03:05pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Guess that's why I've seen LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant, Rose, etc all called for travels and discontinued dribbles and offensive fouls...at key points even during the season?

I guess NBA officials didn't get the same memo you did.
I know they don't call traveling by their own rules. And I hate to say it, but current NBA officiating is by far the worse officiating of the four major sports. It is consistent in it's inconsistency. I'm far from being a rookie but I don't have a clue what comprises a foul in that league anymore.

And I'm sureashell not the only one that shares that view.

I'm not a hater either. I just think that NBA officiating today is entertainment driven. I used to love watching NBA games. Now? Bleh! Sports entertainment like And 1.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 03:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
And I hate to say it, but current NBA officiating is by far the worse officiating of the four major sports.
I only watch 2 of the 4 major sports (unless the Blackhawks or CWS are in the post-season) but I think the NFL is much more inconsistent than the NBA.

I dont know how the other sports grade their officials but 90% or better is how NBA officials grade out.
__________________
I gotta new attitude!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 03:27pm
CLH CLH is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Send a message via AIM to CLH Send a message via Yahoo to CLH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
I know they don't call traveling by their own rules. And I hate to say it, but current NBA officiating is by far the worse officiating of the four major sports. It is consistent in it's inconsistency. I'm far from being a rookie but I don't have a clue what comprises a foul in that league anymore.

And I'm sureashell not the only one that shares that view.

I'm not a hater either. I just think that NBA officiating today is entertainment driven. I used to love watching NBA games. Now? Bleh! Sports entertainment like And 1.
We are all quite impressed how you KNOW so much about the NBA. I'm sure that Jeff VanGundy and Mark Jackson have taught you well via TNT, because they fancy themselves as quite the rule experts. Now, this play was posted to inspire a discussion as the whether this was a travel or not, it was not an opportunity for you to regale us with your personal opinions of how you feel the NBA is officiated. If you do not like or disagree with the league and its rules, then please, do not watch, I promise noone will care. Further, some on this board enjoy discussing plays and learning from others with varying levels of experience and leagues. Nothing is gained from you interjecting your ill feelings toward the NBA. If you do not wish to partake in watching or learning from things that happen in the NBA, then kindly refrain from taking part in them and wait until a topic comes along which piques your interest.

Warmest Regards,
Me
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 12, 2011, 03:54pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,879
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLH View Post
We are all quite impressed how you KNOW so much about the NBA. I'm sure that Jeff VanGundy and Mark Jackson have taught you well via TNT, because they fancy themselves as quite the rule experts. Now, this play was posted to inspire a discussion as the whether this was a travel or not, it was not an opportunity for you to regale us with your personal opinions of how you feel the NBA is officiated. If you do not like or disagree with the league and its rules, then please, do not watch, I promise noone will care. Further, some on this board enjoy discussing plays and learning from others with varying levels of experience and leagues. Nothing is gained from you interjecting your ill feelings toward the NBA. If you do not wish to partake in watching or learning from things that happen in the NBA, then kindly refrain from taking part in them and wait until a topic comes along which piques your interest.

Warmest Regards,
Me
I agree, I am getting a little tired of the same people always having something to say about the NBA when the conversation is not about the overall philosophy of the NBA, but a play in question. I can show literally a hundred plays at the NCAA and even more at the NF level of travels that show up on tape that are not called or could be called into question. But for some reason the NBA get criticized and I have some reasons why, but that is another conversation for another day.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cap and Lebron Rant MD Longhorn Basketball 20 Tue Jul 13, 2010 03:05pm
Lebron Johnny Ringo Basketball 7 Fri Nov 06, 2009 03:48pm
Big decision for LeBron? wizard Basketball 26 Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:13am
Would you take your pic w/ Lebron? pizanno Basketball 13 Tue Feb 11, 2003 05:23am
LeBron James reinstated. BktBallRef Basketball 34 Sun Feb 09, 2003 07:03pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1