Providence - Dayton...Ed Cooley technical

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Charged timeout, add a foul to the team's count, a documented warning, etc. I realize that adding a foul to the team's count is still benefiting the other team, but it's not essentially giving them free points.

I think I'm coming at it from the baseball mentality of an equipment toss that doesn't endanger others and isn't directed at/in response to an official is a warning.

All of those suggestions benefit the other team, just in different ways. Basketball rules don't need to be made so complicated like baseball rules. We have enough penalty variations already. Don't need more. Unsportsmanship conduct is penalized somewhat harshly in most sports and that is what this was. A T is the only option there is, really.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

All of those suggestions benefit the other team, just in different ways. Basketball rules don't need to be made so complicated like baseball rules. We have enough penalty variations already. Don't need more. Unsportsmanship conduct is penalized somewhat harshly in most sports and that is what this was. A T is the only option there is, really.

Yeah. I just feel like that's an excessive penalty for what happened. Is there any rule support for any kind of warning here? Really anything short of what should typically amount to a big gift to the other team.

[crosscountry55]

The unprofessional posts notwithstanding, I can see the merits of both sides of this debate. Personally, I'm not sure this is a T. I think the chair was tipped over, not thrown. No eye contact with the officials....hmmm. But the coach also has to realize that you can't take actions that subject you to the judgment of the officials, because sometimes said judgment may not go in your favor. I don't mind the call, I just don't think I would have called it.

Going a little deeper, tmagan made a great point that was also reflected by an announcing crew during one of the games yesterday (can't remember which one):

Originally Posted by tmagan

The problem is, in the regular season that is not called. About six weeks ago, I was watching a game in where Chris Collins of Northwestern and Pat Driscoll were going jaw to jaw over a non-goaltending call. No technical foul was called.

This has been brought up before, when you have one set of supervisors for the regular season, and a separate set for the NCAA tournament where there is more pressure to call this creates problems.

It's a psychological reality that you call the game differently, even if subconsciously, when you know that instead of your season-long body of work being judged, for the most part, your advancement in the tournament is whittled down to game-by-game performance. Are there some exceptions? Yes. John Adams knows who his tried and true veterans from Regional Finals or higher games are, and they can maybe be just a little more relaxed (just don't make a truly awful call and you're probably safe). For the rest of 'em, every call in a single game is harshly scrutinized.

I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with advancement evaluations within the tournament itself. I'm just saying that if such a system is in place, some of these odd moments that we see every year are going to come with the territory. Intense pressure sometimes makes officials (just like players) behave abnormally.

[SC Official]

Some of the "fanboy" posts from non-officials on this forum are getting out of hand. Anyone that thinks what goes on in the huddle is "not our business" should do all officials a favor and get out of officiating. I would bet money that John Adams has made clear that this kind of conduct related to bench decorum is to be penalized.

[griblets]

Originally Posted by refinks

It's not our job as officials to enforce how a coach acts toward his players.

I disagree. Unsportsmanlike conduct is unsportsmanlike conduct no matter who it is directed towards. Just like the fighting rule, if two teammates fight each other, they are both charged with flagrant fouls. It doesn't matter that they are teammates.

One of my biggest regrets as an official is not giving a T to a travel basketball coach who was berating and belittling his own 13-14 years old players such that everyone in the gym could hear it. His kids were dejected by it, and it sucked the joy of playing basketball from them. A T to the coach would have let the players know that their coach's behavior was wrong and unacceptable...and I think their parents would have cheered and applauded.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by refinks

Horrible call, one of the worst so far. Cooley was mad at his team, and Ogelsby (sp?) had no business even paying attention to the huddle.

I'm of the opinion that NCAA officiating gets worse and worse every tournament. So far this tournament has been an absolute joke when it comes to officiating.

The f'ing huddle was in the free throw lane, how is he supposed ignore what's happening when the chair ends up practically at his feet?

You can't be serious.

[Pantherdreams]

Not a huge fan of this T.

I get that if the officials felt like it was directed at them or they legitmately felt like there was an unsporting act I can support that. I just wouldn't call one here.

I just don't feel like thats a chair throw. I also don't think that we are dealing with kids here. Everyone in the huddle is an adult that is choosing to be there. If you don't want/like or feel maligned but demonstrative displays of emotion but the man in charge you've had ample time to leave prior to tonight. Not saying that validates all behaviour but I'm not concerned with chair tipping hurting the feelings of the other adults involved.

Complicating factors for me:

- The Timeout is in the middle of the floor to start with. So if a water bottle gets kicked or a clip board slammed its going to be much nearer the officials regardless. If the timeouts are going to be allowed to be in the middle of the floor the fact that you are closer to the timeout shouldn't play into how close what is happening in the timeout is good to you.

- You are basically T'ing up alignment. If the Timeout has players or coaches standing behind him. As an official you don't know what is going on. In the games I do i would have never seen the chair as the physical spaces and player alignment would have had the chair stopped at at the feet of a wall of coaches/players before sliding. The fact that a chair can slide out or the timeout is because he's got everyone lined up to see better. If he was emotional but less conscious of getting eye contact with everyone we don't know what has gone on.


That is a lot of "what if" though. Judging the play on its merits, I'm not sure at that level in that moment I'm calling that a T.

[Rich]

"NCAA coordinator of officials John Adams released a statement supporting the call and citing Rule 10, Section 3, Article 2 on bench personnel committing unsportsmanlike acts."

[Robmoz]

Coach was jawing at the official BEFORE he commenced his huddle and complaining about a call just before the timeout...watch the first 3 seconds of the video.....the chair tipping was just the icing on the cake that set the official off, rightly so. Maybe he meant to send it towards the official not expecting any further response. He was railing the crew the previous 4-5 minutes and they extended him a lot of latitude to that point.

For any of you that come on here to blast a fellow official I say shame on you! I wonder how you would like it if we all watched a snippet video of your work and determined that you were the worst official we ever seen. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by refinks

If Oglesby works another game in this tournament it is a shame. The fact he's working at all is a shame. He is awful.

The fact that you're posting as a whiny, pissy fanboy on an officiating forum is also a shame.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by Rich

John Adams decides who works. Can't imagine he'd be bothered by this technical foul.

Those officials who ignore this.....thank goodness I work with people who wouldn't.

There are really only two basic skills that officials must possess to be effective: rules knowledge and judgement. The lack of judgement displayed was astonishing in this situation. Any official that does that cannot be allowed to work a game of any importance at any level.

[bballref3966]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

There are really only two basic skills that officials must possess to be effective: rules knowledge and judgement. The lack of judgement displayed was astonishing in this situation. Any official that does that cannot be allowed to work a game of any importance at any level.

Actually, any official that does not have the stones to take care of business when needed "cannot be allowed to work a game of any importance at any level." I think you've proven your idiocy as a whiny fanboy on more than one occasion on this forum, and this is just another shining example. Maybe you are an official, I don't know, but your ridiculous posting history wouldn't suggest that. Your reading comprehension skills also need some work.

Originally Posted by Rich

"NCAA coordinator of officials John Adams released a statement supporting the call and citing Rule 10, Section 3, Article 2 on bench personnel committing unsportsmanlike acts."

I'm sure you know more than John Adams.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refinks

No, just no. If Oglesby wouldn't have been butting into the huddle its a non issue.

I know that in my association, if I whacked a coach for knocking a chair over because he was mad at HIS PLAYERS I would not be working the rest of the season. Absolutely brutal lack of common sense there

I'm sorry for your situation, but I like working an area where we're allowed to address this crap the right way. Oddly, we never see shit like this. Weird, I know.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by refinks

No, just no. If Oglesby wouldn't have been butting into the huddle its a non issue.

I know that in my association, if I whacked a coach for knocking a chair over because he was mad at HIS PLAYERS I would not be working the rest of the season. Absolutely brutal lack of common sense there

Please share with us the association you work for. Seriously, I want to know what associations not to work for in the event I ever relocate.

Coaches don't try this crap in my area. Funny how that works.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Please share with us the association you work for. Seriously, I want to know what associations not to work for in the event I ever relocate.

Coaches don't try this crap in my area. Funny how that works.

The "association" probably works only adult wreck league. No legitimate high school or college association would put up this this.