UNC/Duke (Video)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

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#4. Correct call...smacked him across the upper arm.
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I thought so at first, but last camera angle shows it was clean.

[letemplay]

#6 I do not see a walk here. I did think it was when I saw it live (first view from TV) but not after watching the first replays last night (and even without Bilas' claim Okafor is the next Olajuwon) After his jump stop, both feet landing simultaneously, it appears to me he then pivots off his left foot, taking a step to basket and scoring. If anything was unusual about this play, possibly a carry a few dribbles before entering the paint, but can't see it clear enough.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by letemplay

#6 I do not see a walk here. I did think it was when I saw it live (first view from TV) but not after watching the first replays last night (and even without Bilas' claim Okafor is the next Olajuwon) After his jump stop, both feet landing simultaneously, it appears to me he then pivots off his left foot, taking a step to basket and scoring. If anything was unusual about this play, possibly a carry a few dribbles before entering the paint, but can't see it clear enough.

Since he gathered and jumped on one foot is he allowed to pivot?

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Since he gathered and jumped on one foot is he allowed to pivot?

Looking at it again and seeing where/when he gathered it looks like he uses his left foot to come to a jump stop. By 4.44.2A ('11-'12CB) he cannot pivot. But he can jump off both feet for a try, just not sure that's what he did. Looks like he lifts his right foot and jumps off his left as he goes to shoot. As someone else said: splitting hairs, and with all they let go now, that seems minimal

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Looking at it again and seeing where/when he gathered it looks like he uses his left foot to come to a jump stop. By 4.44.2A ('11-'12CB) he cannot pivot. But he can jump off both feet for a try, just not sure that's what he did. Looks like he lifts his right foot and jumps off his left as he goes to shoot. As someone else said: splitting hairs, and with all they let go now, that seems minimal

Assuming your description is correct (I didn't watch the video), then why wouldn't that be legal?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by letemplay

#6 I do not see a walk here. I did think it was when I saw it live (first view from TV) but not after watching the first replays last night (and even without Bilas' claim Okafor is the next Olajuwon) After his jump stop, both feet landing simultaneously, it appears to me he then pivots off his left foot, taking a step to basket and scoring. If anything was unusual about this play, possibly a carry a few dribbles before entering the paint, but can't see it clear enough.

All good except he's not allowed to pivot after the jump stop and he did....with a large step, not a little shuffle or anything that could be considered hair splitting.

He jumped off of one foot well after catching the ball prior to the jump stop....he had it in both hands above his head before he jumped.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

All good except he's not allowed to pivot after the jump stop and he did....with a large step, not a little shuffle or anything that could be considered hair splitting.

He jumped off of one foot well after catching the ball prior to the jump stop....he had it in both hands above his head before he jumped.

Right, so what could he have done legally after the jump stop to get his shot off? Jumped with both feet?

BTW, any diff NCAA/NFHS in this play?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Right, so what could he have done legally after the jump stop to get his shot off? Jumped with both feet?

BTW, any diff NCAA/NFHS in this play?

You can jump with both feet. You can lift one foot and then jump off the other (which is what you, I think, described earlier as being illegal -- it isn't).

What you can't do (under this type of jump stop) is lift either foot and return it to the floor.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You can jump with both feet. You can lift one foot and then jump off the other (which is what you, I think, described earlier as being illegal -- it isn't).

What you can't do (under this type of jump stop) is lift either foot and return it to the floor.

That's why I asked about any difference in interp on this between NCAA and NFHS. Originally, as I said, I thought it to be a legal move: come to a legal jump stop as he did, turn face basket, then pivot on left foot after lifting right foot, and jump from that pivot foot towards the basket for a shot. I still think that is legal, but I'm second guessing myself I suppose when I read from NF 11-12 CB 4.44.2A that says after coming to a jump stop "it is a violation if A1 pivots on either foot".
Clarifications anyone?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by letemplay

That's why I asked about any difference in interp on this between NCAA and NFHS. Originally, as I said, I thought it to be a legal move: come to a legal jump stop as he did, turn face basket, then pivot on left foot after lifting right foot, and jump from that pivot foot towards the basket for a shot. I still think that is legal, but I'm second guessing myself I suppose when I read from NF 11-12 CB 4.44.2A that says after coming to a jump stop "it is a violation if A1 pivots on either foot".
Clarifications anyone?

NCAA Rule

Rule 4 Section 22. Jump Stop
Art. 1. A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving or dribbling with:

a. One foot on the playing court, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
b. Two feet off the playing court, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).

Art. 2. A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot can be established as the pivot foot).


If your dribbles ends while airborne, and you land on 2 feet, you get a pivot foot. If you are in possession of the ball (gathered), and you jump off one foot, you get no pivot foot once you land.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by letemplay

That's why I asked about any difference in interp on this between NCAA and NFHS. Originally, as I said, I thought it to be a legal move: come to a legal jump stop as he did, turn face basket, then pivot on left foot after lifting right foot, and jump from that pivot foot towards the basket for a shot. I still think that is legal, but I'm second guessing myself I suppose when I read from NF 11-12 CB 4.44.2A that says after coming to a jump stop "it is a violation if A1 pivots on either foot".
Clarifications anyone?

I think the case could be worded better and/or you are mis-understanding the word "pivot."

Better for the case would be "it is a violation if A1 steps with either foot."

Travelling is "moving the pivot foot in excess of allowed limits" (or something like that. So, when we say "neither foot can be a pivot", it does not mean that neither foot can be lifted, nor does it mean that neither foot can be turned; it means that neither foot can be lifted and returned to the floor.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I thought so at first, but last camera angle shows it was clean.

It was that very same camera angle that confirmed it was a foul for me....the backside of the defenders triceps comes down on the arm of the shooter.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It was that very same camera angle that confirmed it was a foul for me....the backside of the defenders triceps comes down on the arm of the shooter.

Good catch. I did not see that contact until you mentioned it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It was that very same camera angle that confirmed it was a foul for me....the backside of the defenders triceps comes down on the arm of the shooter.

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Good catch. I did not see that contact until you mentioned it.

I have that as incidental contact. I called a foul on a similar play at the end of a game recently and I have wanted that call back after seeing some (poor) video of the play.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have that as incidental contact. I called a foul on a similar play at the end of a game recently and I have wanted that call back after seeing some (poor) video of the play.

That contact occurs just prior to him blocking the ball and impacts the shooter enough that a foul is justified.

I would not argue had it been a no call though.