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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 08:23am
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
5-11-4a.

is the timeout rule. if you stop the game or the player actually asks for timeout because of contacts issue or glasses issue, the rule says you do not charge that timeout to the team. the player is given a "reasonable" time to resolve the situation. the fact that the trainer comes out doesnt affect it if the player has only a contact issue. imo
how much time is reasonable--have to be there-i dont think it is a set number.
Hmmmm...
True enough -- 5-11-4 EXCEPTION a deals with whether or not to issue a timeout for a contact lens dysfunction. However, the original post asked if the guy needing lens service should be replaced with a substitute because personnel came off the bench to provide such service.
Let me stab:
It appears the rules do not address this issue.
If such assistance is rendered for what you consider an "injury", then 3-3-6 requires a sub. If not considered it an "injury", then no sub required.
Either way there doesn't seem to be rules support.
Err on the side of common sense.
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Last edited by Freddy; Fri Jan 23, 2015 at 08:26am.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:38am
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I'm just glad that one of my contacts have never come out. I have big hands and putting a contact in without a mirror is pretty much impossible for me.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:41am
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If any personnel has to come on the court to aid a player the kid's getting a sub or a TO to keep the kid on the court. Keeps it simple and I don't need the rules to cover every singly possible scenario to make a decision here. Common sense.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:51am
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
If any personnel has to come on the court to aid a player the kid's getting a sub or a TO to keep the kid on the court. Keeps it simple and I don't need the rules to cover every singly possible scenario to make a decision here. Common sense.
*Well this is why we have discourse on this web--to deliberate on the "gray area" issues that inhere with our hoop game. As one poster said, it could be a "clever ruse", as another said it could have been "legitimate". The verbatim application of 3-3-6 vs. 5-11-4 balanced with common sense---each situation is context specific--how much time is required to re-insert a contact lens, how much time is too much--how much is too little--coaches use the time to meet with their team, it's all very context-specific no?
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 10:07am
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Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
*Well this is why we have discourse on this web--to deliberate on the "gray area" issues that inhere with our hoop game. As one poster said, it could be a "clever ruse", as another said it could have been "legitimate". The verbatim application of 3-3-6 vs. 5-11-4 balanced with common sense---each situation is context specific--how much time is required to re-insert a contact lens, how much time is too much--how much is too little--coaches use the time to meet with their team, it's all very context-specific no?
IMO, it's not.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:03am
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
If any personnel has to come on the court to aid a player the kid's getting a sub or a TO to keep the kid on the court. Keeps it simple and I don't need the rules to cover every singly possible scenario to make a decision here. Common sense.
I'd argue common sense goes the other way in this scenario and see no reason not to allow for the contact exception expressed in the rules.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:09am
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Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
I'd argue common sense goes the other way in this scenario and see no reason not to allow for the contact exception expressed in the rules.
I agree.

If the contact comes out, there's no way I'm putting mine back in without rinsing with saline. And, since I normally don't carry that with me on the court, I have to have a visit from the trainer.

So, I'm allowing a "reasonable time" to correct without penalty.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 11:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
If any personnel has to come on the court to aid a player the kid's getting a sub or a TO to keep the kid on the court. Keeps it simple and I don't need the rules to cover every singly possible scenario to make a decision here. Common sense.
An uncharged time-out is allowed by the rules in this specific situation, so the player may remain in the game.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
If any personnel has to come on the court to aid a player the kid's getting a sub or a TO to keep the kid on the court. Keeps it simple and I don't need the rules to cover every singly possible scenario to make a decision here. Common sense.
Rule treats contacts/glasses differently than injuries. A quick fix is best, even if it requires a trainer with a bottle of saline. I'm not going to go looking for trouble.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 12:13pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Rule treats contacts/glasses differently than injuries. A quick fix is best, even if it requires a trainer with a bottle of saline. I'm not going to go looking for trouble.
So what would define a reasonable amount of time? So vague if you ask me. I have never seen this happen, and glad that's the case.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 12:18pm
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
So what would define a reasonable amount of time? So vague if you ask me. I have never seen this happen, and glad that's the case.
It's vague, but the standard is the same whether or not a trainer comes onto the floor.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 12:21pm
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
So what would define a reasonable amount of time? So vague if you ask me. I have never seen this happen, and glad that's the case.
Sometimes you just need to officiate.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 01:28pm
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
So what would define a reasonable amount of time? So vague if you ask me. I have never seen this happen, and glad that's the case.
i kinda think you'll know it when you see it . . . I also think it is the kind of thing that people actually tend to be pretty reasonable about.
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:05pm
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NCAAW 3-6-3a says you have 20 seconds to deal with a lost, irritated or displaced contact lens. Otherwise you need a sub or a TO. Interesting that the NCAAW rules committee has sort of defined what a reasonable timeframe is for this issue. NCAAM and NFHS are more subjective with what is "reasonable."

Anyone know this history behind this rules nuance in the NCAAW book?
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Old Fri Jan 23, 2015, 02:13pm
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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
i kinda think you'll know it when you see it . . . I also think it is the kind of thing that people actually tend to be pretty reasonable about.
Unfortunately in basketball there are often times when "reasonable" is in short supply.
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