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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:25am
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
I'd prefer to hear the other side of the story before giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the R was a jerk. I've had different partners who suggested not calling it automatically. I do anyway. The fact that the OP said the R called him out for ticky tack "and ones" is curious - especially since he claims he didn't call any at all. Something doesn't add up.
So let's say you could hear the other side of the story...what then? This guy is automatically dismissed? That makes lots of sense.

For Texref - the best way I have found to deal with these types of situations/partners is to acknowledge them on the court with a simple "OK. Got it partner" and then walk away. In the locker room you can have a discussion with them, generally fueled by asking questions. "Partner, I am really confused about..." or "Partner, I didn't really understand xyz. Could you explain that to me?"
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:31am
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
I'd prefer to hear the other side of the story before giving this guy the benefit of the doubt.
A) Not likely to hear the other side... and B) giving the benefit of the doubt here is appropriate in that he's been here forever and has proven himself to not be a knucklehead already.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:41am
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
So let's say you could hear the other side of the story...what then? This guy is automatically dismissed? That makes lots of sense.
I don't know. That's kind of the point of hearing the other side - to make a more educated judgment.

I just happen to find these types of posts kind of silly. And I work in Texas where I know how these kinds of things go from being in locker rooms during tourney time. I'm pretty sure he doesn't work in my chapter, though, because he would be smart enough to take it to the assignor if he did.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:51am
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
I don't know. That's kind of the point of hearing the other side - to make a more educated judgment.
Roll your eyes all you want... insisting on hearing both sides of the story before making any comment at all would render this forum (heck ... almost ANY forum) useless. Yeah, it'd be great to hear the other side. But it shouldn't be REQUIRED to hear both sides on a forum such as this - else we'll pretty much be stuck having no conversation at all.

Roll Eyes.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:56am
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Roll your eyes all you want... insisting on hearing both sides of the story before making any comment at all would render this forum (heck ... almost ANY forum) useless. Yeah, it'd be great to hear the other side. But it shouldn't be REQUIRED to hear both sides on a forum such as this - else we'll pretty much be stuck having no conversation at all.

Roll Eyes.
Pissing and moaning about partners is great fun - especially when you do it anonymously in a public forum. I'm not saying anything is required - you're being silly now. I'm just saying that I have doubts about what really went down based on the way the OP was presented. And if people didn't debate on Forums, that wouldn't be much fun either, would it?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:00pm
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I semi-mentor someone who works is in an association for which I have I no respect. I tell him that he cannot worry about what his various partners are doing, and that he cannot allow himself to adjust to their less than learned philosophies of officiating. Do what you know is right, and keep conversation to a minimum when it is clear they have no interest in intellectual and/or candid discussions on officiating.

You can search my 9000+ posts, and with the possible exception of one correctable error situation I had years ago, you won't find me concerned with what my partners were or were not doing.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Dec 02, 2014 at 12:03pm.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:14pm
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
Pissing and moaning about partners is great fun - especially when you do it anonymously in a public forum. I'm not saying anything is required - you're being silly now. I'm just saying that I have doubts about what really went down based on the way the OP was presented. And if people didn't debate on Forums, that wouldn't be much fun either, would it?
It may have not gone down exactly like that, but elements of it ring very true. One of my commissioners has already sent out an email about veterans who insist they are not going to change how they call it.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 12:36pm
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
I don't know. That's kind of the point of hearing the other side - to make a more educated judgment.

I just happen to find these types of posts kind of silly. And I work in Texas where I know how these kinds of things go from being in locker rooms during tourney time. I'm pretty sure he doesn't work in my chapter, though, because he would be smart enough to take it to the assignor if he did.
You need to make an educated judgement on a guy asking for ways to deal with difficult partners??? Who cares if it went exactly as he said or not - he was asking for advice on how to handle things better.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 01:34pm
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[QUOTE=BadNewsRef;945300]I semi-mentor someone who works is in an association for which I have I no respect. I tell him that he cannot worry about what his various partners are doing, and that he cannot allow himself to adjust to their less than learned philosophies of officiating. Do what you know is right, and keep conversation to a minimum when it is clear they have no interest in intellectual and/or candid discussions on officiating.

The problem (if you choose to stay in that Association for what you believe are valid reasons) is that your partners do have an impact on how you are perceived and or evaluated... I also suspect that it has a (perhaps unconscious) effect on your officiating.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 02:00pm
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Originally Posted by Texref View Post
The issue came when my partner came to me after we shot the free throws and wanted to know why the coach got the T. I told him and then he proceeded to tell me how I needed to follow protocol. I said "you asked what the T was for and I told you. Don't talk to me about protocol now as we are getting ready to in bound the ball." He said "no we are going to talk about this now."
What would I do differently?...In addition to NOT SAYING what I've highlighted above, I would simply respond: "OK...what would you like to talk about?" (I would try to hide my sarcasm)

Good communication is making sure that a message is sent, received, and understood. Seems to me that he didn't understand what you were saying (otherwise, why would he need to "talk about it now"?). When he tells you why he wants to talk about it - then you'll know how to respond. Shutting him down w/ the "Don't talk to me about protocol...." is only going to make him more upset than he already is. What seems obvious to you, may not be to others.....

Just my $.02 worth...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 02:00pm
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Someone piss in your wheaties this morning Smitty?? I asked a question about to handle the situation better next time. This forum is to help us get better at this avocation is it not? I wasn't pissing and moaning about my partners, rather asking how to handle the situation better next time. The story is my side of the weekend and as has been pointed out, they may very well be doing the same thing elsewhere that I'm doing here. No sure why you are attacking me for asking a question?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 02:40pm
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New partners

Anytime I work with new partners, I get as much info about them before the game and try to have a more detailed pre-game if possible. I usually ask them if they have worked with anyone I know. I cover how and when we will consult on the court in case of conflicting calls (Blarge). I have called a block on a defender and my partner actually took a charge to the table after I reported my foul. The main thing is to keep your wits about you and consentrate on calling your game. The R is by rule the guy that rules on matters not covered in the rules and usually will take a lead role in game admin. I always follow the R's lead. If I have problems the assigner will get a call and an email ASAP.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 02:54pm
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Originally Posted by Texref View Post
Someone piss in your wheaties this morning Smitty?? I asked a question about to handle the situation better next time. This forum is to help us get better at this avocation is it not? I wasn't pissing and moaning about my partners, rather asking how to handle the situation better next time. The story is my side of the weekend and as has been pointed out, they may very well be doing the same thing elsewhere that I'm doing here. No sure why you are attacking me for asking a question?
And I offered my suggestion: talk to your assignor about it. Did you do that? If so, what was his response? In Texas, there are very big associations and very small ones. If it's a big association, perhaps the assignor is unaware of this person trying to undermine what the group as a whole is trying to educate its members to do regarding the freedom of movement rules. If you don't bring it to the attention of the people who are trying to get everyone on the same page, then you aren't helping the next guy who will go through the same thing. You already addressed the T situation - it's pretty much a common expectation around here to get with one partner before going to the table with a T. That way nothing in the administration is likely to get missed - especially since you had a foul just prior to the T.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 02:58pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I semi-mentor someone who works is in an association for which I have I no respect. I tell him that he cannot worry about what his various partners are doing, and that he cannot allow himself to adjust to their less than learned philosophies of officiating. Do what you know is right, and keep conversation to a minimum when it is clear they have no interest in intellectual and/or candid discussions on officiating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRJ1960 View Post
The problem (if you choose to stay in that Association for what you believe are valid reasons) is that your partners do have an impact on how you are perceived and or evaluated... I also suspect that it has a (perhaps unconscious) effect on your officiating.
80% of his partners are horrible. They have no interest in getting better, no interest in discussing plays, no interest in any to do with officiating beyond getting their pay checks. He doesn't have the flexibility to travel an hour out of town to work like I do.

But he's been to the State Tourney Eval Camp and has been selected to work the state tournament. If he focused on what his various partners are doing it would hold back his development.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 05:07pm
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Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
And I offered my suggestion: talk to your assignor about it. Did you do that? If so, what was his response? In Texas, there are very big associations and very small ones. If it's a big association, perhaps the assignor is unaware of this person trying to undermine what the group as a whole is trying to educate its members to do regarding the freedom of movement rules. If you don't bring it to the attention of the people who are trying to get everyone on the same page, then you aren't helping the next guy who will go through the same thing. You already addressed the T situation - it's pretty much a common expectation around here to get with one partner before going to the table with a T. That way nothing in the administration is likely to get missed - especially since you had a foul just prior to the T.

Who said I haven't talked to my assignor? Can I not still ask for different ways? Talking to my assignor gives me feedback but it will not help the situation as we are all from different associations. I appreciate your feedback but not the way you attacked me for asking a question.
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