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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 01, 2014, 07:22pm
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Difficult partners (long post... Sorry)

So I was working a decent tourney this past weekend. Worked in a crew with 2 guys I've never worked with before for 6 games. Had two situations and would like feedback on how to better approach next time...

1st 2 games don't have any issues. I can see we have slightly different interpretations of the new contact rules (one, our R, wants to still give a warning for hands when we have been told not to give warnings) but nothing big until 3rd game. It's a GV game. Some minor differences as a crew in fouls the first half. At halftime our R calls me out for "soft fouls" on and and ones due to new contact rules. I have not had any and ones due to contact rules to this point in the day, let alone that game. He says we need to have a patient whistle and give them a warning before calling the foul. At this point I call him out and say I haven't had any fouls like that AND we are not to give warnings this year. The rules are clear and our chapter has been clear. I calm down and "agree" as I am the only one in the crew that's calling as we have been directed. Second half of the game was crap on my part because I feel I changed how I was calling the game and not for the better. Talked to some other officials who were in the locker room at half and heard our "conversation". They were more on my side of the new rule interpretation and didn't understand why he was calling me out when he had the "soft fouls and ones."

In our last game (3rd game of day 2) I gave a coach a fairly easy tech. He was out past mid court yelling at me about a call I had just made. I called the T and reported both. I then turned around and told my partners that #xx had one shot for the foul on the shot and then we would have 2 shots for the t. I went opposite. We had pregamed to get together with the closest official when we give a t but this situation didn't warrant as it was all one motion really. The issue came when my partner came to me after we shot the free throws and wanted to know why the coach got the T. I told him and then he proceeded to tell me how I needed to follow protocol. I said "you asked what the T was for and I told you. Don't talk to me about protocol now as we are getting ready to in bound the ball." He said "no we are going to talk about this now." I basically no we aren't, now you can talk to the coach or I will but we are moving forward with the game. No discussions after the game (I believe bc we were both ready to be done and neither wanted to talk)

Second day I basically decided to have a get in, get done, get out kind of day.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 01, 2014, 08:37pm
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I can sympathize, but I don't think I can advise on how to handle things better. I would have likely handled things the same as you. In neither sitch was that the time or the place for your partners to have that conversation. Halftime, if R wants to bring up the disparity in application of the new rule, that's fine. We need to talk and make sure we are on the same page. The problem is for most of us that is not really a new rule. I can tell you the exact way it is written is what has been stressed as "need to call these" in rules meetings here for the last two years. The same guys who didn't want to call those fouls before are not going to want to call them now. I would have stuck to my guns just like you did.

I am a pretty literal guy, if our state supervisor says "hey call the game like this" I will step in line. I've had plenty of rubs like the ones you describe. Sometimes GIGDGO is all you can do. Sorry no great advice, I feel like you handled the situation fine.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2014, 09:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
We had pregamed to get together with the closest official when we give a t but this situation didn't warrant as it was all one motion really. The issue came when my partner came to me after we shot the free throws and wanted to know why the coach got the T.
Apparently, the situation *did* warrant it. At least as I read it.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2014, 10:30pm
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Originally Posted by Texref View Post
The issue came when my partner came to me after we shot the free throws and wanted to know why the coach got the T.
"Because I gave it to him."
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 01, 2014, 11:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
1st 2 games don't have any issues. I can see we have slightly different interpretations of the new contact rules (one, our R, wants to still give a warning for hands when we have been told not to give warnings)
The bold section would have been the time to address the hand check rule issues. Put it this way: if you have information about something regarding a foul are you going to wait until you're in the locker room to tell your partner(s)?

I thought not

Don't keep issues to yourself. Get them before they become big issues because you know when they become big issues it won't be during a 40-point blowout.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 02:45am
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Couple thoughts:

1. your problems could also be a result of calling 6 games with the same crew.

2. From the way you describe things perhaps the R and the other guy are sitting on some other forum writing the same "Difficult Partner" stuff about you. You said you had to 'calm down' -- crew disputes always need to be handled calmly and tactfully, especially if you are working with people you don't know very well. Even if you are 'right' in the way you are calling things, sometimes you need to defer to the assigned R. He's the assigned crew chief (presumably, you didn't give much background) and the crew needs to march to the beat of his drum. If you have problems with the way he wants things done then report him after the game.

3. Probably not a smart idea to talk to some "other officials" at the site about your partner problems. Find one or two guys you trust and talk to them, or post here on The Forum™.

4. If you pregamed to get together with the nearest official after a tech and don't do it you can't get mad if your partner calls you out on it. Still wasn't the right time or place to call you out though.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 03:05am
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I am really afraid we are going to have the same issue in our association with the old timers as you describe: them continuing to not call hand checks and not wanting to change. I think the rule change is great for the game.

The secondary problem I see happening is that me calling them and the other two partners not calling them makes the crew look bad. I am hoping though that the coaches recognize who is right and it won't hurt in the long run. Hopefully they will get after officials who arent calling it, since they have likely spent a lot of time couaching thier kids on it.

I also have high hopes that our new varsity assigner will get people to do it or show em the highway. I really hope it improves our games.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 05:51am
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Thanks for feedback. Reflection wise I probably should have handled the T the way we discussed. No excuse on that. Was looking more for how/when he approached me.

The comments to "other" officials in the room were made in reference to two that approached me. I did talk to a trusted official on the drive home from tourney.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 07:40am
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I'm not sure what part of Texas you're from, or which chapter you're in, but your one side of the story doesn't make it seem like you may have been the best partner to work with either. Maybe things happened exactly as you described, but it just comes off sounding like a young, inexperienced complainer. Talk to your assigner if you really think this guy was not following the protocol you were expected to follow. In my chapter, crew chiefs aren't assigned blindly.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 08:50am
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No, to me it sounds like some older guys who are going to keep on calling the game the way they always have. Give a warning on contact on the ball-handler?

Above, I see a post that says that the R is the boss. No, that's not the case everywhere. Here, the R is simply the person who does the book and (usually) tosses the ball up and administers the throw-in at the start of quarters. The R can't tell a U how to work a game any more than a U can tell an R how to work a game. Most nights, the R is the guy who hadn't been the R in the crew's previous games.

Perhaps the newer officials are better positioned to deal with such a change, although I'm working hard to make sure I'm fully on board. I remember back to the first year of the 3-point shot -- older officials were not trained to look at the feet on a jump shot, but this new guy never had a problem with that.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 09:29am
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I'd prefer to hear the other side of the story before giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the R was a jerk. I've had different partners who suggested not calling it automatically. I do anyway. The fact that the OP said the R called him out for ticky tack "and ones" is curious - especially since he claims he didn't call any at all. Something doesn't add up.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 09:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
I'd prefer to hear the other side of the story before giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the R was a jerk. I've had different partners who suggested not calling it automatically. I do anyway. The fact that the OP said the R called him out for ticky tack "and ones" is curious - especially since he claims he didn't call any at all. Something doesn't add up.
Well, he's not a newbie -- he's been a member here for 10 years.

Ticky-tack "and ones" have nothing to do with the new rule, anyway. I'm not sure why that was brought up. And there are a lot of ticky-tack "and ones" in my opinion, but that's a whole 'nother thread.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 10:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texref View Post
At halftime our R calls me out for "soft fouls" on and and ones due to new contact rules. They were more on my side of the new rule interpretation and didn't understand why he was calling me out when he had the "soft fouls and ones."

.
*Excuse me, but exactly what are "ones" you referring to? What is a "one" ?
I'm not familiar with that jargon
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
*Excuse me, but exactly what are "ones" you referring to? What is a "one" ?
I'm not familiar with that jargon
I assumed he meant fouls on the shooter who makes the shot . . . and ges one free throw.
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Old Tue Dec 02, 2014, 11:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
*Excuse me, but exactly what are "ones" you referring to? What is a "one" ?
I'm not familiar with that jargon
He meant "And one's" but he didn't type it very well
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