A bad night and a long post

[bard]

First, apologies to mick. I've always tried to follow mick's advice on preventive officiating. Last night, I didn't do so good.

Let me start by saying yesterday was my first day back at work after being incredibly sick for 2 weeks, and I really should have found someone to do these 7 A&B boy's games for me. But, I'd already had to cancel enough games, and I wanted to get back out there...

A game first. Visitor coach rides us, even though he wins a blowout by 30 or 40. I've had him before, and know what he's like, but I've "managed" him before.

B game. Visitors have a different coach, but A team coach is still on the bench. First half, home team has 6 players on the court after a dead ball. We catch this before the ball is live, and we eventually get one kid off the court. I start to administer the throwin, but notice my partner is now in a discussion with Visitor A coach. My partner backs away and I again go to administer. I happen to look up, and my P is again exchanging words with the coach. My P holds up the stop sign a couple of times. The coach, BTW, is standing up and clearly giving my P an earful. My P is a young guy who has never given anything other than an administrative T, and he does not give one here.

We finally go on, and I get the scoop at half time. Visitor A coach wanted us to call a T for home team having six players. He then insists that it is not our responsibility to count the players. Now the visitors were leading 3-0 after 1 quarter and about 14-2 at half. By this point, I'm whipped. I'm hacking and wheezing and not thinking clearly at all. Both visitor coaches have been on us all night.

Early 3rd quarter, and we're calling it pretty tight to try and settle things down. Home player shoots 2, and I'm trail. 2nd shot smacks backboard and, in retrospect, probably missed the rim. (It was close.) I didn't call it, but probably should have. Resulting melee is a jump ball with visitors getting the AP. Visitor coaches are hopping (literally) mad. We ignore them and put ball in play.

About 90 seconds later, I report a foul, and Visitor A coach comes up to me while I'm reporting asking if the foul shot hit the rim. I'm still reporting the foul, so I hold up the stop sign and say, "Coach, sit down." I do this again adding to the coach that he needs to "Drop it."

He continues on and I give my first T to a coach in my brief 2 years of experience. I didn't lose my temper, but my patience was shot. We have a brief discussion about why he got the T, and then he starts back on the darn freethrow. I give him the 2nd T and say, "That's it coach. You need to leave the gym." I did not lose my temper at any time. The coach leaves and chats with the AD awhile on his way out.

In retrospect, the 2nd T came very fast. I don't think I would have given it if I wasn't feeling so tough. I also thought of the question often asked on this board, "Did it make the game better?" It was like night and day. The game improved tremendously. I swear the kids played better after this guy was gone, although the remaining coach was still a jerk.

After the game, the AD affirms to me that the coach's behavior was entirely inappropriate for a 7th grade B game. I'm left thinking I should have made a better effort to difuse the situation before it got to a T, but my brain just couldn't process the situation quickly enough to figure it out.

Sorry for the long post, but it helps me to review the situation and think of how I could/should have handled it better. I just probably should have found a replacement since I still didn't really have my legs under me. Hopefully I'll do better tonight!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by bard
think of how I could/should have handled it better.

You should've T'd the coach earlier, in my opinion. If he was literally "hopping" mad during a 7th grade game, he's begging for a T. Plain and simple. As I've said in another thread, my tolerance for coach behavior goes waaaaaaayyyyyyyyy down during sub-HS games. Bang 'im early and often, and don't even think twice about it.

Chuck

[mick]

bard,
You did fine. The next Technical foul will be much easier to apply.
I had a similar sitch happen to me a few weeks ago.

I, Trail, probably let a Home Free-thrower break the plane to early. Why probably? I wasn't really paying attention and the shooter got the rebound and scored. ("Crap!!!")
Very verbal V Coach called a time-out and invited me to talk with him about 15 feet on the court. Okay, I probably deserved this, so I went over and listened, and listened, and listened. He didn't stop until I whacked him.

My fault (probably), but I couldn't undo it and after his charade he left me no alternative.

mick

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bard
B game. Visitors have a different coach, but A team coach is still on the bench. First half, home team has 6 players on the court after a dead ball. We catch this before the ball is live, and we eventually get one kid off the court. I start to administer the throwin, but notice my partner is now in a discussion with Visitor A coach.

He continues on and I give my first T to a coach in my brief 2 years of experience. I didn't lose my temper, but my patience was shot. We have a brief discussion about why he got the T, and then he starts back on the darn freethrow. I give him the 2nd T and say, "That's it coach. You need to leave the gym." I did not lose my temper at any time. The coach leaves and chats with the AD awhile on his way out.

Just a coupla obsevations,Bard.Take them for what they're worth.

1)Overall,I think that you did fine.Working that many games when you are still not feeling good shows a helluva lot of dedication.The "T's" were warranted,and they cleaned up the game.
2)in the first sitch above,the coach doing the arguing wasn't the head coach in this game.He shouldn't have been allowed to say anything.You can easily stress that to the coaches before the game -i.e. "Remember,coaches,only the head coach is allowed to talk to us or call TO's!".I refuse to debate anyone other than the head coach,unless it's a real quick comment on the way by the bench.
3)After you called the first "T",never stand around and debate it with the coach at this level.Report it to the scorer and walk away.If the coach wants to follow you then and yap at you,hey-he's digging his own grave.
JMO.

[williebfree]

Don't beat yourself up about this incident. This situation appears to be one that a "T" should have been awarded early.

Let me offer some insight from a local AD that has helped me feel at ease when I am forced to issue a "T" on a berating coach: "The gym is another classroom and coaches are teachers. Their conduct should be molded to the standards that are acceptable (expected) in the classroom."

Yes, some "teachers" (coaches) can be very enthusiastic or animated. If they opt to "vent" about a disagreeable call they better make it tactfully and briefly and then move on... anything other than that is "teaching" the wrong lesson and needs adjustment.

[Marty Rogers]

Bard: We all have those games where we mull over and wish we had handled things differently. If only... I think if your were your usual self (feeling healthy) you would have gone over beside your (rookie) partner during the "6 players on the court" heated discussion, and whacked your first (any maybe only) T at that time. Especially after that frustrating game A. Also, this is only your second year, and you learned a lot from just these two games alone!

[Sleeper]

I had one of these last week. I had a coach in a JV boys game that I have had problems with before, but had never had to T. I had been able to manage him previously. Two minutes into the game, there is a rugby scrum under the basket jumping for a rebound. He wants over the back, and comes storming out onto the court when he doesn't get it. I tell him twice to get off the floor, and he doesn't listen. So I say, "Coach, I need you off the floor please." He takes two steps back and says,"That was still a BS call. I'm off the floor, what are you going to do about it now?" That earned him his first T. I then tell him he has to sit, he says he is in his coaching box. I tell him he has lost the priviledge to stand and gets to sit for the rest of the game, and I offer him a rule book to check the reference he swears is not there. After that, he settled down and coached. Asked for a couple of clarifications and questioned a couple of calls, but way below the danger point.

I feel your pain.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

You offered him a rule book? Where did you pull that out from?

[LarryS]

Sleeper,

My advice is NEVER offer a rule book to the coach. Never mind that it would be considered by many as baiting the coach, what would you do if he accepted the offer? Stop the game an go retrieve it from your bag?

What was suggested to me at camp, and I always cover this in pregame, if one calls a T on the coach the/a partner goes to the coach and reminds him that he has lost the use of the coaching box. That puts a different face in front of the coach and allows someone to calm him down (if needed).

I will say I probably would have given the T the first time he ignored my request that he get off the floor.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Sleeper
and comes storming out onto the court when he doesn't get it. I tell him twice to get off the floor, and he doesn't listen. So I say, "Coach, I need you off the floor please." He takes two steps back and says,"That was still a BS call. I'm off the floor, what are you going to do about it now?" That earned him his first T.

OK...I am confused...if he is out on the court - why didn't you T him immediately??? Why would you ask twice and then tell a third time and then let him pop off on top of all that before T'ing him??

I will say it again - the reason so many of these coaches act like jack-a@@#@ is because we let them...

[mick]

Originally posted by rockyroad

OK...I am confused...if he is out on the court - why didn't you T him immediately??? Why would you ask twice and then tell a third time and then let him pop off on top of all that before T'ing him??

I will say it again - the reason so many of these coaches act like jack-a@@#@ is because we let them...

Bert Smith looked pretty cool when he did it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rockyroad

OK...I am confused...if he is out on the court - why didn't you T him immediately??? Why would you ask twice and then tell a third time and then let him pop off on top of all that before T'ing him??

I will say it again - the reason so many of these coaches act like jack-a@@#@ is because we let them...

Darn! Rocky beat me to it!

I think part of the problem is some of us think we can "manage the game" when they in fact we are dealing with genuine, dyed in the wool jerks. It aint a game management issue when something like this happens - just take care of business.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
Bert Smith looked pretty cool when he did it.

I think Bert T'd Coach Davis as soon as he came onto the court, didn't he? Only after giving a T, and not wanting to look trigger-happy, did he offer the coach a chance to save himself. Isn't that the way it happened?

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Bert Smith looked pretty cool when he did it.

Bert Smith looked great when he did it! But I suspect it took Bert a shorter time to hit his whistle twice (in front of how many millions of people?) than it took Bard to hit his once.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I think Bert T'd Coach Davis as soon as he came onto the court, didn't he? Only after giving a T, and not wanting to look trigger-happy, did he offer the coach a chance to save himself. Isn't that the way it happened?

Chuck

As I recall Bert actually gave Davis a shove in the chest to get him out of his face before hitting him the first time.