Lane Violation and Clock issue

[uneek1]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Welcome to The Forum!

You call was correct but your reasoning is slightly off.

I would suggest calling the violation when it occurs, not when the offensive player makes the free throw. If he has the ball at his disposal and his teammate leaves the lane, the play is technically dead right then, even before the free throw is taken. The only delayed violations are on the defense.



You did it correctly.

You can only correct the clock if you have definite knowledge of how much time should be on/off the clock. You can use an officials count (10 second count usually) to take time off. If you don't have an official count then you can not correct the clock. Leave the clock as is, and inbound from where the ball was when you blew your whistle to address the clock error (the point of interruption or POI).

Thanks I wasn't sure on the first one because the rules change between who can occupy what spaces. So I am clear it doesn't not matter who occupies the top spaces it can be occupied by off/or def as long as off has no more than three players including the shooter.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by uneek1

Thanks I wasn't sure on the first one because the rules change between who can occupy what spaces. So I am clear it doesn't not matter who occupies the top spaces it can be occupied by off/or def as long as off has no more than three players including the shooter.

Correct. Keep in mind, it belongs to the defense if they want it, but if they don't take it, the offensive player can slide up into that spot: or cross the paint and double up on that side (as long as he is in position prior to the shooter catching the bounce from the official).

And Aremred is right, that's an immediate violation. I was so distrought from reading it wrong I forgot to point that out.

PS: What rule change?

[KenThree]

I don't believe just anyone can occupy the second and third lane spaces.

Rule 8-1-4 indicates that a teammate of the thrower "may" occupy the second lane space and an opponent of the free thrower "may" occupy the third lane space.

"May" indicates that the teammate in the second lane space or the opponent in the third lane space is not required. It can be left vacant. The first space, as we know, cannot be left vacant by an opponent of the shooter without penalty.

Nothing in the rule allows for an opponent to occupy the second space or a teammate to occupy the third space.

In other words, you couldn't have three opponents of the shooter on one side of the lane and one on the other side in the first space for the maximum of four for the opponent.

[Raymond]

The only requirements are 2 defensive players on each lower block; no more than 4 defensive and 2 offensive players along the lane line. Following those restrictions, players can occupy any open slot.

[KenThree]

I'll chalk it up to a brain cramp.
My apologies.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by KenThree

I don't believe just anyone can occupy the second and third lane spaces.

Rule 8-1-4 indicates that a teammate of the thrower "may" occupy the second lane space and an opponent of the free thrower "may" occupy the third lane space.

"May" indicates that the teammate in the second lane space or the opponent in the third lane space is not required. It can be left vacant. The first space, as we know, cannot be left vacant by an opponent of the shooter without penalty.

Nothing in the rule allows for an opponent to occupy the second space or a teammate to occupy the third space.

In other words, you couldn't have three opponents of the shooter on one side of the lane and one on the other side in the first space for the maximum of four for the opponent.

8-1-4f and the NFHS Casebook say otherwise.

8-1-4f. Players shall be permitted to move along and across the lane to occupy a vacant marked lane space within the limitations listed in this rule.


8.1.4 SITUATION:

A1 is at the free-throw line for the first attempt of a bonus situation. In (a), two Team B and two Team A players occupy the first and second marked lane spaces, respectively. B3 occupies one of the third marked lane spaces. A3 attempts to occupy the vacant third marked lane space; or (b) two Team B players occupy the first marked lane spaces. The offense chooses not to occupy any marked lane spaces. Two more Team B players choose to occupy the second marked lane spaces.

RULING: Illegal in (a), A3 is not permitted to occupy the third marked lane space. Only two offensive players may occupy marked lane spaces during a free throw. If the improper alignment is not corrected prior to the thrower having the ball at his/her disposal, a free-throw violation shall be called on Team A immediately. Legal in (b), four defensive players are permitted in any of the first three vacant marked lane spaces.

[JetMetFan]

Yet another rule where a little editing on the part of the NFHS could clear up confusion. For clarity's sake 8-1-4d should read: "Teammates of the free thrower may only occupy the second marked lane space on either side."

Move along. Nothing to see here...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

For clarity's sake 8-1-4d should read: "Teammates of the free thrower may only occupy the second marked lane space on either side."

JetMetFan: You haven't clarified the rule, you've changed the rule. Teammates of the free thrower can occupy the third spaces as long as no more than two offensive players occupy the marked spaces, and as long as defensive players do not wish to occupy said spaces, although I'm not 100% sure about the second part (as long as defensive players do not wish to occupy said spaces).

"He's keeping a list, he's checking it twice":

On free throws, there is a maximum of two offensive players and four defensive players in the six marked lane spaces. The defense must be in the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks, on all free throws. The offense must not occupy the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks. For free throws when there are no rebounders in the marked lane spaces, i.e. technical fouls and intentional fouls, the nine nonshooters shall remain behind the free throw line extended and behind the three point arc.

Players in marked lane spaces must not move into the lane until the ball is released by the free-throw shooter. The shooter, and the players behind the three point arc, must wait until the ball hits the rim, or the backboard, before entering the lane, or penetrating the three point arc. In addition, the free throw shooter must cause the ball to enter the basket, or touch the ring, before the free throw ends. During a free throw, no opponent, including bench personnel, may disconcert the free thrower.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Yet another rule where a little editing on the part of the NFHS could clear up confusion. For clarity's sake 8-1-4d should read: "Teammates of the free thrower may only occupy the second marked lane space on either side."

The HS rule is not the same as the NCAA-W's rule. Your wording changes the HS rule.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Yet another rule where a little editing on the part of the NFHS could clear up confusion. For clarity's sake 8-1-4d should read: "Teammates of the free thrower may only occupy the second marked lane space on either side."

Why would you change the rule?

[JRutledge]

The only requirements other than the first spot and the 4-2 breakdown, is the fact that the offense is allowed to be in the second spot unless the offensive players vacates that spot. No reason to change the wording for that issue that is so rare in the first place.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

JetMetFan: You haven't clarified the rule, you've changed the rule. Teammates of the free thrower can occupy the third spaces as long as no more than two offensive players occupy the marked spaces, and as long as defensive players do not wish to occupy said spaces, although I'm not 100% sure about the second part (as long as defensive players do not wish to occupy said spaces).

Originally Posted by Adam

Why would you change the rule?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The HS rule is not the same as the NCAA-W's rule. Your wording changes the HS rule.

Sorry guys. I broke my "posting before 8AM" rule and misread the case play. Even worse because I know the NFHS rule is different from the NCAAW rule and I had that in my head as I typed the last post