How would you handle this situation better (Video)

[Nevadaref]

I would advise you to stop considering all the other factors you mention beyond your 1a and 1b priorities. They can only get you into trouble and possibly even get you accused of game manipulation.
Plus I'm only on board with your 1b on close decisions. I'm not going to call something incorrectly because a partner kicked a call earlier in the game.

You are certainly aware of the video age in which we officiate because you mention coaches clipping plays and sending them in. Let me share with you that I recall Nevada upsetting Gonzaga in the Sweet 16 in 2004 and the game wasn't really close. I worked the scrimmage for the NV team at the start of the next season and had seen the NCAA preseason video. There was actually a block/charge play from that game included. It was a Gonzaga player attacking the basket on a fast break and a Nevada guard back on D tried to take a charge. The official called a block. The NCAA video stated the play was a clear charging foul. But what I remember is the NV coach's comment at the scrimmage. We were asked to stringently enforce the upcoming POEs, such as offensive post players using their arms in a backward wrapping motion to hook/hold/pin defenders. Anyway the coach commented that he had seen the video and when he saw Mark Few on a recruiting trip at a summer tournament, he told him that he won by 19 and it should have been 21! So, coaches do notice such calls and remember them.

Lastly, to characterize certain calls as "game management" or state that a particular decision should be made because it will be accepted without a fuss seems to inherently admit the incorrectness of the call. The only game management fouls that I can envision as valid would involve cleaning up rough play during rebounding action and they would be to control the players not the coaches. Game management calls for coaches involve verbal warnings and technical fouls. A block/charge should never fall under this heading. I have complete anathema for making a decision because it will be accepted while the correct call will generate complaining. Consider many backcourt violations. Often the correct call of a violation gets grief because the coaches don't know the rule, while not calling anything will be accepted. That doesn't make it right. I also think that officials who do such are lazy and weak. Not saying that you personally would do such, just commenting in general on what I've observed over several years in officiating.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

My opinion of this video is something that I've seen from many officials, yet don't agree with. They saw the play as a charge, but thought that with the visiting team down 20 they would let it go and not stick it to them. They were afraid of penalizing the team losing by a large margin. See how that worked out for them? Just "call the obvious" and don't complicate the situation with outside factors.

Keep in mind...

1. I never said I saw the play as a PC, though I did say I could be convinced

2. When I wrote "Add in the fact it's a 20-point game: A no-call on that play might give her the impression the crew checked out mentally" I was dealing with the overall game situation regardless of which team wound up on the short end of the call. In other words...a no-call on a train wreck in a 20-point game gives the impression the crew has other things on its mind, like going home.

[Rich]

I don't officiate to the score or even to a play that happened earlier, for the most part.

In today's video age, the coach is going to send a clip in of the ONE PLAY he didn't like and I'm doubting that the supervisor is going to ask to see the entire game to judge whether that call was correct.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're assuming too much.

Yes, she stood up, unhappy with the no-call at 7....but it took a few more, at 12, to get the T...and 17 to get the 2nd T.

That was certainly plenty of time for her to react to the initial play and react more to the player being down.

Still, the defender met all the requirements for LGP to make it a charge, so she really didn't have anything to complain about. And I'm not calling it backwards just because the team is down.

My only quibble is that while he blew the whistle at 17 for the second T, it took him two seconds to actually get his whistle out. She earned the second one in less than 3 seconds after getting the first one.

Again, I ask everyone who says he should have gotten out of there, how did he have time?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Adam

My only quibble is that while he blew the whistle at 17 for the second T, it took him two seconds to actually get his whistle out. She earned the second one in less than 3 seconds after getting the first one.

Again, I ask everyone who says he should have gotten out of there, how did he have time?

I don't think he was wrong to give both. She obviously said something she should not have said...

My complaint is that neither of the partners hustled over there at all. One slowly walked over. The other stood across the court dribbling the ball. One of them should have gotten over there and made sure nothing escalated after the T's.

[Pantherdreams]

T seems warranted.

I'm ok with a charge call here or the no call. I don't see it as a block so not willing to make up that call for "game management."

Both T's seem warranted but quick is succession. I work with a few guys do similar things, they almost allow more then I would allow before giving the first 1 but if the coach/player doesn't immedaitely respond to the whistle and T signal with silence and walking away they will almost assuredly give the 2nd one right away.

If someone is out of control the idea that I'm going to blow my whistle and make a gesture with my hands that is immediately going to rectify their behaviour seems a little extreme.

If I call that T its after I walk away from the confrontation and call/report it the table. Then leave to administer once its awarded the first time. If she's willing to chase me across the court to stay on me then she earns the second one and the title as the only woman willing to chase me anywhere.

Standing there and T'ing her up then creating no seperation while she is upset , and giving her the 2nd one for being upset in the same act, position, same dialogue you just t'd her up for. Your only a little past the point where if the coach "Terrible call , you moron!" then you could in theory give a coach a T for first half of the phrase and then the 2nd. Not defending coaches but its all 1 sentiment or expression of frustration. If after a time that expression of frustration won't stop (After you've walked away, after the t's been called, after you've tried to administer) sure ring coach up again.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I don't think he was wrong to give both. She obviously said something she should not have said...

My complaint is that neither of the partners hustled over there at all. One slowly walked over. The other stood across the court dribbling the ball. One of them should have gotten over there and made sure nothing escalated after the T's.

I agree with this. He probably would have gotten both T's called anyway, but it would have looked better.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

My only quibble is that while he blew the whistle at 17 for the second T, it took him two seconds to actually get his whistle out. She earned the second one in less than 3 seconds after getting the first one.

Again, I ask everyone who says he should have gotten out of there, how did he have time?

It's really more to the other two guys. Their walking around looking lost. Someone needs to hustle up and get over and be a buffer while the one is reporting the first technical.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by OKREF

It's really more to the other two guys. Their walking around looking lost. Someone needs to hustle up and get over and be a buffer while the one is reporting the first technical.

I have heard some officials say that if you, as one of the partners heads over to the coach after they get whacked that it looks like the crew is split and one partner is trying to caudal the coach and be friends. I don't think I agree with this philosophy but could you all weigh in on that?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

It's really more to the other two guys. Their walking around looking lost. Someone needs to hustle up and get over and be a buffer while the one is reporting the first technical.

I agree, but in this particular video, none of us move that fast. She got her 2nd T before he could really turn to report the 2nd.

Some may think that's too fast, and want to allow the coach to finish the vent that earned the first, but there are situations that don't allow for that.

Had a summer game a couple of years ago where I stung an assistant coach, for jumping up to complain about a no-call. As I was reporting, he started the sarcastic clap and cheer. I continued my report and added another.

I'm guessing (key word) that she wasn't continuing her thought, but added some comment regarding his technical foul call.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All the more reason when it's this close to call a block here. We don't make calls in a vacuum, sometimes we need to add a little common sense to our calls. It's called game management and I thought more here would agree with me.

This sounds perilously close to you saying we should make calls simply to calm the coaches down, or to follow the path of least resistance. I know that's not what you meant... but it sure is what it sounds like.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

... none of us move that fast ... summer game a couple of years ... As I was reporting, he started the sarcastic clap and cheer. I continued my report and added another.

I remember my parents saying, “Nothing good ever happens after midnight". The officials' creed should be, “Nothing good ever happens in the summer".

Ejection ...

"It all happened so fast. It was all so surreal." (BillyMac)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I have heard some officials say that if you, as one of the partners heads over to the coach after they get whacked that it looks like the crew is split and one partner is trying to candle the coach and be friends. I don't think I agree with this philosophy but could you all weigh in on that?

Yep...and half the time it is the same people that just want to criticize you. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I have heard some officials say that if you, as one of the partners heads over to the coach after they get whacked that it looks like the crew is split and one partner is trying to caudal the coach and be friends. I don't think I agree with this philosophy but could you all weigh in on that?

If my partner gives a T, I am moving over as fast as I can. Let them vent a little, and let them know that they have to sit and if a second T is warranted then I can handle it. On the flop side, as in this situation sometimes it happens so fast that they same guy has to give both.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All of those advocating a charge call here....good luck dealing with the coach after you make that call. If you thought she was pissed at the no-call, imagine her surprise when you're going the other way.

Really? Why would dealing with the coach here be any different than any other time? It was a charge. If the charge was called right they would have moved to the other end of court and any Ts would have been even more obvious.