How would you handle this situation better (Video)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

First time I watched it I had a PC. watched it three more times and still have a PC. Don't know what she said to get the second one, but it must have been the magic words, as she was walking away. He needed to get away and one of his partners needed to get in and be a buffer. Let her vent then settle her down. If she needs another one, let one of the other two do it if at all possible.

I don't see how there was time.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Andy

Good discussion and I agree that there could have been more participation in the situation by the other two officials. I haven't worked basketball for a few years now and I have a philosophy-type question. I fully realize that the answer to this may differ depending on where each of you are and your local practices.

As a softball umpire, I have been taught that if I eject a coach, I'm done with that coach. I'm not going to talk anymore to him or her and it's up to my partner(s) to deal with the coach and get him/her out of the area so we can continue the game. Is this same philosophy taught in basketball? Thanks.

When I eject a coach, I turn over all communication to game mgmt.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All of those advocating a charge call here....good luck dealing with the coach after you make that call. If you thought she was pissed at the no-call, imagine her surprise when you're going the other way.

And this would not be any different than any other day of the week. And it also appears that she probably snapped for other reasons more than this call. Usually you do not go crazy like that over one so-called missed call.

Peace

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm not inclined to give a lot of rope when I kick a play, for two reasons.

1. Most of the time, I don't think I kicked it.

2. Officials miss calls all the time, and coaches still need to maintain their composure.

The irony is this coach lost her mind because the officials missed a call that should have gone against her player anyway. Even if I was inclined to give rope to a coach when I kick a call, that wouldn't apply if my kicking the call went in her favor. Who knows, maybe they gave her player a break because of time and score, maybe they just missed it: either way....

I can dig it.

From my perspective, I know when calls are close and I know when calls are kicked. If I was in this game, I would have felt we just kicked it. I'm sure all three of the officials on this game felt the same.

The first technical is warranted because the coach gets crazy. But then we gotta walk away and allow them some time and space to diffuse. ESPECIALLY, cause I KNOW we just kicked it.

Just my 5 cents.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not necessarily. If the crew had made a call, even a charge, she may have not reacted at all or at least not as much. I think the lack of a call with a player who was injured is what infuriated her so much. It is when the officials don't make a call when it was clear there was a foul that is the problem.

The collision happened at 6 seconds. The coach stands up to protest the call at 7 seconds. I don't know how she knew her player was injured in the span of 1 second, but it's possible.

This coach is clearly pissed because of what she thinks is a foul against her player, and a missed call (perhaps the final straw) by the crew.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And this would not be any different than any other day of the week. And it also appears that she probably snapped for other reasons more than this call. Usually you do not go crazy like that over one so-called missed call.

All the more reason when it's this close to call a block here. We don't make calls in a vacuum, sometimes we need to add a little common sense to our calls. It's called game management and I thought more here would agree with me.

If there was a block called on this play I predict the offensive players coach would not have blown up, the defensive coach would not have protested at all, and this video is a non-story. Am I totally wrong here?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All the more reason when it's this close to call a block here. We don't make calls in a vacuum, sometimes we need to add a little common sense to our calls. It's called game management and I thought more here would agree with me.

If there was a block called on this play I predict the offensive players coach would not have blown up, the defensive coach would not have protested at all, and this video is a non-story. Am I totally wrong here?

If you do not feel there is a call, then what common sense are we discussing here? And I see a lot of games where players fall and nothign was illegal. That is why I do not subscribe to the "If a players falls to the floor we must have a call." IMO we must know how they got there, but we do not need a call. And just making a call is not going to make a lot of coaches happy.

I think we worry too much about why coaches go nuts. You can be totally correct and a coach goes nuts. I have better things to be concerned with.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not necessarily. If the crew had made a call, even a charge, she may have not reacted at all or at least not as much. I think the lack of a call with a player who was injured is what infuriated her so much. It is when the officials don't make a call when it was clear there was a foul that is the problem.

I was thinking the same thing. If something - anything - is called she may be upset but not as upset as nothing AND a player on the floor hurt. Add in the fact it's a 20-point game: A no-call on that play might give her the impression the crew checked out mentally.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

All the more reason when it's this close to call a block here. We don't make calls in a vacuum, sometimes we need to add a little common sense to our calls. It's called game management and I thought more here would agree with me.

If there was a block called on this play I predict the offensive players coach would not have blown up, the defensive coach would not have protested at all, and this video is a non-story. Am I totally wrong here?

You seem to be advocating calling the play a block because the visiting team is down 20 points and you think that such would appease the coach.
If that is the case, then that is the wrong way to officiate. We aren't there to make the coaches happy. We are there to ensure a player safety and a fair contest. Calling this a block because of time and score, not on the merits of the action, is grossly unfair to the defender and her team.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I was thinking the same thing. If something - anything - is called she may be upset but not as upset as nothing AND a player on the floor hurt. Add in the fact it's a 20-point game: A no-call on that play might give her the impression the crew checked out mentally.

My opinion of this video is something that I've seen from many officials, yet don't agree with. They saw the play as a charge, but thought that with the visiting team down 20 they would let it go and not stick it to them. They were afraid of penalizing the team losing by a large margin. See how that worked out for them? Just "call the obvious" and don't complicate the situation with outside factors.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You seem to be advocating calling the play a block because the visiting team is down 20 points and you think that such would appease the coach.
If that is the case, then that is the wrong way to officiate. We aren't there to make the coaches happy. We are there to ensure a player safety and a fair contest. Calling this a block because of time and score, not on the merits of the action, is grossly unfair to the defender and her team.

I am advocating calling that play a block because 1) I think it's a block, 2) if it's close you could still call it a block, 3) the offensive coach would be ok with the call, and 4) the defensive coach would be ok with the block call even if marginal.

I am not suggesting to call clear plays the opposite way just to give one team a call. That would be unethical. But I don't think this play is clear, and other factors come into play.

[amusedofficial]

If we called something every time more than one player hits the floor in a girls game, we'd never get done. The C was reporting the T when the coach approached him; I fault the L for not getting between C and coach, he shoulda been over there telling her she had to take a seat for the remainder of the festivities.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

If we called something every time more than one player hits the floor in a girls game, we'd never get done. The C was reporting the T when the coach approached him; I fault the L for not getting between C and coach, he shoulda been over there telling her she had to take a seat for the remainder of the festivities.

This is what I was saying. No reason for either of the other 2 to not get in there and diffuse, while the calling official is reporting the T. Everyone just seems to be ambling around.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

The collision happened at 6 seconds. The coach stands up to protest the call at 7 seconds. I don't know how she knew her player was injured in the span of 1 second, but it's possible.

This coach is clearly pissed because of what she thinks is a foul against her player, and a missed call (perhaps the final straw) by the crew.

You're assuming too much.

Yes, she stood up, unhappy with the no-call at 7....but it took a few more, at 12, to get the T...and 17 to get the 2nd T.

That was certainly plenty of time for her to react to the initial play and react more to the player being down.

Still, the defender met all the requirements for LGP to make it a charge, so she really didn't have anything to complain about. And I'm not calling it backwards just because the team is down.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I am advocating calling that play a block because 1) I think it's a block, 2) if it's close you could still call it a block, 3) the offensive coach would be ok with the call, and 4) the defensive coach would be ok with the block call even if marginal.

I am not suggesting to call clear plays the opposite way just to give one team a call. That would be unethical. But I don't think this play is clear, and other factors come into play.

With due respect to you, points #1 & #2 are the only valid reasons for calling a blocking foul and #2 only comes into consideration if there had been similar decisions made by the crew previously in the contest.
I don't give a rat's behind about #3 & #4. I'll eat my whistle before I make calls based upon how a coach is going to take it.
LGP and the amount of force in the contact are the two factors that I consider on a block/charge play.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

With due respect to you, points #1 & #2 are the only valid reasons for calling a blocking foul and #2 only comes into consideration if there had been similar decisions made by the crew previously in the contest.
I don't give a rat's behind about #3 & #4. I'll eat my whistle before I make calls based upon how a coach is going to take it.
LGP and the amount of force in the contact are the two factors that I consider on a block/charge play.

I'd typically agree with you -- obviously the goal is to get the call right. We don't make calls in a vacuum however, there is more that goes into a call than just what happened that time. You have to consider how the crew has treated similar plays, what was said in the pregame about different plays, and game management goes into it as well.

If this play was called a block, do you think the defender's coach would be sending this play in to the supervisor/assignor bitching about the call? I don't think so. Do you think the offensive player's coach would have blown up like she did? I don't think so. Again, not advocating making a wrong decision to appease a coach, but everyone would accept a blocking foul here. Does that mean something? I think it does. Sometimes we have to referee to expectations instead of strictly calling things in a vacuum. Refereeing the defense and getting the call right based on the rules and previous plays (for consistency) are my 1a and 1b priorities, but I think there are other factors that can also weigh in.