Wisconsin-Arizona Player Control Foul (Video)

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by Berkut

OK, if we assume that is correct...are we really saying we should be making 50-50 calls in that situation?

I've always been told that you have to have the nuts to make the call at the end of the game, but you also have to have the discretion to make damn sure it is a 100% call when you do make it.

Seems a pretty brutal move to take a possession away at the end of a game like this on a 50-50 call.

I wasn't on the floor of course, but my initial reaction when the whistle blew was "Wow, that was kind of a weak block to call...wait, he called OFFENSIVE???" "He must have seen something I did not to make that call".

Then after replay, when I saw everything he saw, I was even more stunned that he pulled that call out in that situation. I think after replay it was simply wrong, and in full speed, it looked even worse.

Disagree completely with such a brutal assessment. Like I said, the variety of views shows how close it was.

[Berkut]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Disagree completely with such a brutal assessment. Like I said, the variety of views shows how close it was.

But that is my point - if it is such a close or marginal call that even after replay the best you can say is that maybe, just maybe, there is a 50-50 chance that it was the right call...

then I don't think it is a good call, especially in that situation. You basically eliminated a teams chance to win the game on that play on a "Gee, maybe it was a foul....maybe..." call. And on an offensive foul to boot.

[Raymond]

I have the defender initiating the contact, so if I have a whistle, it's going to be a block early. If I don't put a whistle on that, I'm not calling a PC on A1 for the subsequent push-off.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I have the defender initiating the contact, so if I have a whistle, it's going to be a block early. If I don't put a whistle on that, I'm not calling a PC on A1 for the subsequent push-off.

That's a really poor argument.
You can't justify not penalizing an act which is clearly illegal because you either couldn't determine the legality of an action which preceeded it or simply failed to properly penalize an earlier action.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's a really poor argument.
You can't justify not penalizing an act which is clearly illegal because you either couldn't determine the legality of an action which preceeded it or simply failed to properly penalize an earlier action.

If the contact did not displace the dribbler, then it is not a foul. The only displacement in this play is when the dribbler/shooter, extended his arm. If he does not do that, then it might be easier to call a foul on the defender. Then again, that is if you believe the defender was not in a legal position. You can certainly argue that was the case.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's a really poor argument.
You can't justify not penalizing an act which is clearly illegal because you either couldn't determine the legality of an action which preceeded it or simply failed to properly penalize an earlier action.

Yes I can, because I should have penalized the initial illegal contact by the defender. Why would it be more egregious to not penalize A1's actions?

It's not like we're talking about acts that happened 10 seconds apart or on separate plays. There's a body bump followed immediately by a push-off. Put your whistle on the initial illegal act.

That body bump is a foul on every single NCAA-Men's video John Adams has put out this season.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes I can, because I should have penalized the initial illegal contact by the defender. Why would it be more egregious to not penalize A1's actions?

It's not like we're talking about acts that happened 10 seconds apart or on separate plays. There's a body bump followed immediately by a push-off. Put your whistle on the initial illegal act.

That body bump is a foul on every single NCAA-Men's video John Adams has put out this season.

Question: per NCAA directives, would the contact by the defender be a foul on its own? Tough to get a true answer since we know the situation and entire play, but it is a good question.

[Raymond]

Tom, IMO that contact has been emphasized as a foul by the NCAA all year.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Berkut

But that is my point - if it is such a close or marginal call that even after replay the best you can say is that maybe, just maybe, there is a 50-50 chance that it was the right call...

then I don't think it is a good call, especially in that situation. You basically eliminated a teams chance to win the game on that play on a "Gee, maybe it was a foul....maybe..." call. And on an offensive foul to boot.

This is just all types of wrong.

First of all, Greene was 10 ft from the play, had a great look and HE determined it was a foul according to his judgement. And that's what he was on the floor to do. To say, "Gee maybe it was a foul" is YOUR opinion. He obviously was convinced.

Secondly, Arizona got the ball back with 2.5 seconds to play and had another chance to win the game. They didnt make the shot. It's called basketball...it happens. To say that one call eliminated a teams chance to win is almost always incorrect and here it was proven to be 100% false since they indeed had a subsequent chance to win the game. And all of that is moot anyway if you believe, as I do, that it was the correct call.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Berkut

But that is my point - if it is such a close or marginal call that even after replay the best you can say is that maybe, just maybe, there is a 50-50 chance that it was the right call...

then I don't think it is a good call, especially in that situation. You basically eliminated a teams chance to win the game on that play on a "Gee, maybe it was a foul....maybe..." call. And on an offensive foul to boot.

There is no doubt there is a foul to be called, the debate is whether the defense committed a foul prior to the push off. Either way, a whistle was going to come.