Shooting Foul? (Video)

[Rich]

I'm with the majority on the other thread. If the player passes, we're not shooting.

This is not that thread. Here, we're shooting.

[rockyroad]

So just for kicks and giggles I went back and read through (most of) that old thread...that's a completely different situation than the play posted here, and you know it, Arem. The play posted in this video is not a player who decides to pass...it is a player who gets fouled and has the ball knocked out of his hands, thus he is not able to complete the shot.

Arem...Are you still saying you would not give free throws in the play posted in the video in this thread?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm with the majority on the other thread. If the player passes, we're not shooting.

This is not that thread. Here, we're shooting.

Agreed, my initials thoughts about the play I asked for were wrong, A1 was in fact shooting when he was fouled.

But in the other thread my view still stands as I posted in response to jar in this thread.

[Adam]

The thing is, the interp leaves it as a given that the player was shooting. We don't get to officiate with givens, and that's really where the previous disagreement came into play.

If there's doubt about whether the player is shooting, sometimes we have to see the action after the foul to make that determination. If there's no doubt, then by rule it doesn't matter. This is where the disagreement comes into play, and it's why I don't think it's going to affect more than a few plays for each of us during our careers.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

The thing is, the interp leaves it as a given that the player was shooting. We don't get to officiate with givens, and that's really where the previous disagreement came into play.

If there's doubt about whether the player is shooting, sometimes we have to see the action after the foul to make that determination. If there's no doubt, then by rule it doesn't matter. This is where the disagreement comes into play, and it's why I don't think it's going to affect more than a few plays for each of us during our careers.

Exactly. Seeing the whole play helps me determine whether or not it is shooting foul. You have some officials who assume everyone who jumped in the air with the ball is shooting.

There are many set plays now where the PG goes to the paint, launches himself in the air, then kicks it out to a 3-point shooter, or a cutter coming down the middle of the paint. When I officiate I pay attention to what the primary ball-handlers do during the course of the game.

Supervisors I work for get upset when we put a whistle on a play where a guard gets bumped a little in the paint and then passes to a big man who is now having his dunk or lay-up waved off. And they definitely don't want us to turn around and then say the guy who just passed the ball was really shooting.

[rockyroad]

So basically we are all now "changing" plays in order to make our respective points. So getting back to the original video that was posted, and not trying to change the play to fit our personal agendas...

Two shots on the play or not?

I say yes.

And you all say???

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So basically we are all now "changing" plays in order to make our respective points. So getting back to the original video that was posted, and not trying to change the play to fit our personal agendas...

Two shots on the play or not?

I say yes.

And you all say???

Yes, this was not a pass.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So basically we are all now "changing" plays in order to make our respective points. So getting back to the original video that was posted, and not trying to change the play to fit our personal agendas...

Two shots on the play or not?

I say yes.

And you all say???

The original play is yesterday's news. Even I admitted that it was a shooting foul and I started the thread.

We've now moved on to the philosoply that every time a player jumps in the air with the ball they are judged to be shooting, no matter what. Even if during the entire game they driven to the hole and passed off every time. They've taken 0 shots and have 15 assists, but if they get fouled, they were shooting.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The original play is yesterday's news. Even I admitted that it was a shooting foul and I started the thread.

We've now moved on to the philosoply that every time a player jumps in the air with the ball they are judged to be shooting, no matter what. Even if during the entire game they driven to the hole and passed off every time. They've taken 0 shots and have 15 assists, but if they get fouled, they were shooting.

BNR, I don't think anyone here has stated anything remotely resembling this.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

BNR, I don't think anyone here has stated anything remotely resembling this.

"...So, if the motion up to the foul looks like any other shot, the player should be going to the line..."

That statement takes nothing into account other than raising the ball in an upward motion. That action looks the same whether passing or shooting.