Timing question

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

We're always making what we know are partial adjustments:

Clock doesn't start, we have 6 seconds of a BC count, followed by a gap, followed by 3 seconds of a 5 second count, then we notice. We'll take off 9 seconds, even though we know more probably elapsed.

This makes me less uncomfortable putting, at minimum, .1 second on the clock if I have definite knowledge the foul was before the horn.

And even though that 9 might have been 7.57 or 10.52 if it has been measured with a stopwatch.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

With replay, you have definite knowledge. The clock should stop on the foul.

Count the basket, 1 shot, put the .1 back up on the clock.

The above is the NCAA ruling for games with a TV monitor. The time on the clock at the instant of the contact is restored, even if the whistle comes later.

For NFHS it matters when the whistle was sounded. That is what stops the clock, not the instant of the foul. The referee can only restore what time was remaining following the whistle with definite knowledge. Therefore at the HS level, it is possible that the try would count with a fast whistle on this play yet also possible that it properly should not count with a slow whistle.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I think I had nunc pro tunc at the Vietnamese Pho place yesterday.

Nothing like a good Pho Cup for lunch.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Could you explain this further please?

Sometimes lack of awareness and maybe a desire to show that you know the rules puts an official in predicaments that they (heck not many really) may be ill-equipped to handle.

Short of a very obvious foul in such an instance I don't see why an official would want to call something ticky-tacky.

In this instance barring a foul the shot would be waved off. Why reward the offense for marginal contact?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

Sometimes lack of awareness and maybe a desire to show that you know the rules puts an official in predicaments that they (heck not many really) may be ill-equipped to handle.

Short of a very obvious foul in such an instance I don't see why an official would want to call something ticky-tacky.

In this instance barring a foul the shot would be waved off. Why reward the offense for marginal contact?

Ignoring the coach-speak, if the defense commits a foul on that shot, I'm leaning towards assuming the offense might have released the shot in time. The rule isn't that hard to administer (people have been shooting free throws with time expired since the invention of free throws.

[deecee]

I agree, and what I was trying to say, was that I try harder to not call ticky-tack fouls at the expiration of time. Without replay ability there are times when whistle and horn are so close it's hard to discern. Heck even with replay its hard as there is no sound with slo mo.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

I agree, and what I was trying to say, was that I try harder to not call ticky-tack fouls at the expiration of time. Without replay ability there are times when whistle and horn are so close it's hard to discern. Heck even with replay its hard as there is no sound with slo mo.

Honestly, I don't worry about "ticky-tack" fouls anyway. I'm not even sure what that means, because the coaches I hear the phrase from don't seem to have any consistent meaning behind it. Really, it just means any foul against their team where blood wasn't drawn.

Frankly, if my whistle blows at or after the horn on a foul I know happened before the horn, I've got no problem making the call.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by deecee

Sometimes lack of awareness and maybe a desire to show that you know the rules puts an official in predicaments that they (heck not many really) may be ill-equipped to handle.

Short of a very obvious foul in such an instance I don't see why an official would want to call something ticky-tacky.

In this instance barring a foul the shot would be waved off. Why reward the offense for marginal contact?

Nowhere in the OP does it say the foul was "ticky-tacky" or "marginal."

And, those types of contact shouldn't (generally) be called at any time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

I agree, and what I was trying to say, was that I try harder to not call ticky-tack fouls at the expiration of time. Without replay ability there are times when whistle and horn are so close it's hard to discern. Heck even with replay its hard as there is no sound with slo mo.

I try hard not to call those fouls all the time, but I'm sure you're not saying otherwise.

Guessing on what to put on the clock is a dangerous game. With replay I'm happy to do it and I'll go by the time of the foul absent other instructions.

We had a state quarterfinal game (called a sectional final here) on Saturday and I called a foul on a made basket and the clock ran out at the end of the third quarter. It was so loud, I never heard a horn. I needed to ask my partners if a horn sounded. Once I did, then the next question was did either of them have definite knowledge of the time on the clock when the whistle blew.

We ended up shooting the throws with the lane cleared.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

In this instance barring a foul the shot would be waved off. Why reward the offense for marginal contact?

If this comment is made with respect to the OP, then you are reading additional info into that post. It does not state that the clock was stopped and play resumed with 0.2 on the game clock.
It merely tells us that the shooter begins his motion at that time.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'll go by the time of the foul ... definite knowledge of the time on the clock when the whistle blew.

Time of the foul, or time of the whistle for said foul, because they probably aren't the same time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Time of the foul, or time of the whistle for said foul, because they probably aren't the same time.

Depends if I have a monitor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

Depends if I have a monitor.

So even though the clock is supposed to stop with the whistle (signals a foul), if you have a monitor, your can back up time and reset the clock to the time of the actual foul?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So even though the clock is supposed to stop with the whistle (signals a foul), if you have a monitor, your can back up time and reset the clock to the time of the actual foul?

Yes, Billy, that is exactly what the text of the NCAA rule says to do. The rule is posted earlier in this thread. Scroll back and read it again. I also summarized that point in one of my previous posts.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, Billy, that is exactly what the text of the NCAA rule says to do. The rule is posted earlier in this thread. Scroll back and read it again. I also summarized that point in one of my previous posts.

I'm strictly a NFHS guy. In my high school game, if I get a good look at the clock during a last second foul called by me, and if the clock mistakenly runs down to the horn, I could only reset the clock back to my whistle (signal), not back to the actual time of the foul. Am I correct in that high school assumption?