"blarge call" high school

[just another ref]

When I say I am an interpreter, perhaps I flatter myself. The title is unofficial and self-proclaimed and I have no authority over anyone, and don't want any. But I am the main one who answers rules questions, at meetings and on the phone. As far as having a question or dispute on this rule, I don't have one anywhere except here. It's never been a problem on the court and I don't expect one. If there has ever been an official ruling on this issue, in my state or any other, I assumed I would have seen it posted here at one time or another. I have not.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When I say I am an interpreter, perhaps I flatter myself. The title is unofficial and self-proclaimed and I have no authority over anyone, and don't want any. But I am the main one who answers rules questions, at meetings and on the phone. As far as having a question or dispute on this rule, I don't have one anywhere except here. It's never been a problem on the court and I don't expect one. If there has ever been an official ruling on this issue, in my state or any other, I assumed I would have seen it posted here at one time or another. I have not.

So ... you have NO ONE you could ask this of whose opinion you would consider as definitive? You have had no clinics at which this would come up?

Because I assure you, sir - the opinion you're expressing (all alone, I might add) here is contrary to those heard from clinicians and interpretors the rest of the country over.

I think a few posters are taking JAR's "I asked a guy at camp" defense too literally.

The point is that JAR asked a guy what his common sense told him. His argument is an appeal to common sense. Common sense tells use a block/charge play is either a block or a charge (in varying degrees). If there is a close play the mechanics manual doesn't tell us to rule a double foul to cover all our bases, it tells us to make the call as best we can (by deferring, PCA, etc.). It does make common sense to gather and decide on one or the other, and that's the argument JAR was appealing to.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I think a few posters are taking JAR's "I asked a guy at camp" defense too literally.

The point is that JAR asked a guy what his common sense told him. His argument is an appeal to common sense. Common sense tells use a block/charge play is either a block or a charge (in varying degrees). If there is a close play the mechanics manual doesn't tell us to rule a double foul to cover all our bases, it tells us to make the call as best we can (by deferring, PCA, etc.). It does make common sense to gather and decide on one or the other, and that's the argument JAR was appealing to.

"Common sense" doesn't sign any of my checks. Each one of my college supervisors and both of my HS assignors expect their officials to adjudicate "blarges" by reporting 2 fouls to the table. Sitting here debating us ad naseum is not going to get JAR the answer he is looking for. Who cares what a bunch of anonymous Internet officials say when you have the option of getting a definitive ruling from your governing bodies?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I think a few posters are taking JAR's "I asked a guy at camp" defense too literally.

The point is that JAR asked a guy what his common sense told him. His argument is an appeal to common sense. Common sense tells use a block/charge play is either a block or a charge (in varying degrees). If there is a close play the mechanics manual doesn't tell us to rule a double foul to cover all our bases, it tells us to make the call as best we can (by deferring, PCA, etc.). It does make common sense to gather and decide on one or the other, and that's the argument JAR was appealing to.

None of us could use that standard and expect to be taken seriously. Even at a camp you have to know who is talking to you. Not everyone is in a position to require you to do much of anything. And not only do we already have a ruling, it is in writing in the casebook of both bodies in which I work.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even at a camp you have to know who is talking to you.

I talked to a guy at camp. It meant nothing. I talk to guys here every day, which also means nothing. It was a counter to the NOBODY agrees with you statement which I hear so frequently, nothing more.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I talked to a guy at camp. It meant nothing. I talk to guys here every day, which also means nothing. It was a counter to the NOBODY agrees with you statement which I hear so frequently, nothing more.

But you mentioned that conversation here as it relates to this issue. I have talked to a lot of people at camps, but I do not come here and mention them in the case of a rules interpretation. And like said by others, you have a way to get an answer to your question. IMO you have not accepted that fact and are acting like you have support for your position. This situation is clearly in writing and has been that way for some time now. If you want real clarification, then take it up with your state people. And even be careful about that as they might reference what everyone else here has referenced is the proper interpretation to this situation.

A long time ago I asked for an interpretation based off of a discussion we largely had here and was given one interpretation. When it was later found out there was some previous interpretations, the interpretation changed from the person I originally had asked their "opinion" on the matter.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I talked to a guy at camp. It meant nothing. I talk to guys here every day, which also means nothing. It was a counter to the NOBODY agrees with you statement which I hear so frequently, nothing more.

Have you ever considered that there might be a reason you hear that so frequently? Think about it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I talked to a guy at camp. It meant nothing. I talk to guys here every day, which also means nothing. It was a counter to the NOBODY agrees with you statement which I hear so frequently, nothing more.

No it wasn't, it was in response to our questions about asking a governing body about the ruling.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No it wasn't, it was in response to our questions about asking a governing body about the ruling.

True, and perhaps that was misleading.

I think your answer to why the multiple foul case doesn't matter it probably the most important factor in the whole discussion.

Because that is now those who write our checks expect us to call the game.

If that's the single reason why guys feel obligated to go with two fouls here it's easy enough to understand. The one thing that is certain is this doesn't apply to me in this case, so I'm free to follow the rule as I see it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Because I assure you, sir - the opinion you're expressing (all alone, I might add) here is contrary to those heard from clinicians and interpretors the rest of the country over.

I don't doubt that, but consider a couple of things. The meat of the discussion here is always all about opinions and interpretations because the case play alone doesn't even come close to saying what is for some reason considered holy. There is nothing about signals. There is nothing which says one official cannot change his ruling. The only thing definitive in this case is what you do when this fiasco is called. Count the basket, point of interruption, etc.

Then, turn to the next page in the book. There is a case play about multiple fouls. It has no gray areas at all. B1 and B2 both foul A1. Your report both fouls and shoot x number of free throws. period Yet everybody here, including me, says pick one and report it. This case play is not important at all, because?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

...This case play is not important at all, because?

Because that is now those who write our checks expect us to call the game.

And are we supposed to believe that you officiate in a state where there has never been a "blarge" reported to the table? B/c that what all you posts are saying since you say you'll never have to worry about it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because that is now those who write our checks expect us to call the game.

That is what this is all about. Only thing my assignor ever told me not to call was a T for plane violations on a throw-in, referring to it as a "two bit call." And this was in response to a complaint from a coach after a loss. This was a direct instruction from a superior, but it had no basis in the rules. I'm saying that must be what we're dealing with here, I simply don't understand why/how any interpretation was twisted in this direction.

And are we supposed to believe that you officiate in a state where there has never been a "blarge" reported to the table?

There may have been a dozen this week, but I personally have never seen or heard of one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When I say I am an interpreter, perhaps I flatter myself. The title is unofficial and self-proclaimed and I have no authority over anyone, and don't want any. But I am the main one who answers rules questions, at meetings and on the phone. As far as having a question or dispute on this rule, I don't have one anywhere except here. It's never been a problem on the court and I don't expect one. If there has ever been an official ruling on this issue, in my state or any other, I assumed I would have seen it posted here at one time or another. I have not.

You have, ad infinitum, and you're the only one who thinks the case play says anything different.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If there has ever been an official ruling on this issue, in my state or any other, I assumed I would have seen it posted here at one time or another. I have not.

Originally Posted by Adam

You have, ad infinitum, and you're the only one who thinks the case play says anything different.

I'm talking about something that says: From the desk of Mary Struckoff
re: caseplay 4.19.8c When and only when the two officials involved come out with conflicting preliminary signals in the play, both fouls must be reported. They may not confer and report a single foul.

If this exists, I'd like to see it, but it wouldn't change my opinion.