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Old Wed Mar 12, 2014, 08:11am
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double foul?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I think that we can divide this debate into two separate discussions:

1) The rule that defines Guarding.

2) How do we handle double whistles in general and a "blarge" in particular.


Discussion (1) is the easy discussion. We just know from our office in an "ivy covered, academic tower" that a "blarge" cannot exist. By rule there cannot be a "blarge". B-1 has either obtained (NFHS)/established (NCAA/FIBA) a LGP before contact between A-1 and B-1 occurs, or B-1 has not obtained/established a LGP.

Discussion (2) is about how we make our "big bucks" in the trenches when officiating a real game and not discussing hypothetical situations.

Double whistles are going to happen but hopefully we can keep them to a minimum. How we handle double whistles depends to some degree is determined by whether the game is a two-man crew of a three-man crew. They have two different philosophies to some degree. Two-man: It means that the vast majority of the time there should be one pair of eyes officiating on the ball and one pair of eyes officiating off the ball. Three-man: It means ,that depending upon position of the ball: there can be two pairs of eyes officiating on the ball and one pair of eyes officiating off the ball, OR, there can be one pair of eyes officiating on the ball and two pairs officiating of the ball.

The vast of majority of us have attended enough camps and we know that there are as many theories as to how to handle double whistles as there are camps.

I am not going to comment on the ways to handle double whistles that have been mentioned in the thread; but having a good pre-game goes a long way in reducing double whistles and how to handle the few double whistles that happen in one's game.

My concern in this thread is that the double whistle is a "blarge". The NFHS and NCAA Men's committees have given us, which in my humble () opinion a very unsatisfactory way to handle such a situation. While the NCAA Women's Committee recognizes (I will refrain from any snarky remarks, .) that by rule a "blarge" cannot happen and gives us guidelines as to how to solve the problem.

As a student of the rules of the game, it just makes my skin crawl, when I think of how the NFHS and the NCAA Men's committees want us to handle a "blarge". Their solution is not logical; it is not rational; nor can it be defended by rule. And everybody knows how I feel about interpretations that cannot be defended by rule, .

I have a story about a "blarge" that occurred in a boys' H.S. varsity game in Michigan about twenty years ago, but this post has gone on long enough.

MTD, Sr.
MTD,

Do you also believe that you can't have a "double foul" by rule? The rules committee has decided that the fouls were personal fouls committed against each other. I'm not saying that it is a better rule than the Women's, but the case book play makes it a rule.

Also, the camps that I have been to lately encourage double whistles instead of trying to avoid them. Admittedly, the camp is heavily influenced by Women's officials but a lack of a whistle in the lane will prompt the clinician to ask "why didn't you have a whistle on that play?"
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Old Wed Mar 12, 2014, 01:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny mulkey View Post
MTD,

Do you also believe that you can't have a "double foul" by rule? The rules committee has decided that the fouls were personal fouls committed against each other. I'm not saying that it is a better rule than the Women's, but the case book play makes it a rule.

Also, the camps that I have been to lately encourage double whistles instead of trying to avoid them. Admittedly, the camp is heavily influenced by Women's officials but a lack of a whistle in the lane will prompt the clinician to ask "why didn't you have a whistle on that play?"


Ronny:

Whoooooooaaaaa Nellllllllllie!!! I have never (with apologies to J. Dallas Shirley) said that one cannot have a DF. Just this year alone, I had a DTF (both Flagrant) and two DPFs and Mark, Jr., had a DPF himself. What I am saying is that by rule it is impossible to have a "blarge".

"blarge" is a combination of two words: "block" and "charge" At this point I should issue a mea culpa: I have limited my musings in this thread to obtaining/establishing a LGP but they also apply not to just Guarding but to Screening as well.

When the Guarding and Screening rules apply and illegal contact occurs, by rule, there can be only one outcome: a block, or a charge, not both.

When the Guarding Rules apply: Either the Defensive Player (B-1) has obtained/established a LGP against an Offensive Player (A-1), or B-1 has not obtained/established a LGP against A-1.

When the Screening Rules apply: Either the Screening Player (B-1, yes defensive players can also set screens) has legally obtained/established a spot on the floor against the Screened Player (A-1), or B-1 has not legally obtained/established a spot on the floor against A-1.

And I will not go on because everybody knows my position about "blarges".

MTD, Sr.
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