"BLARGE" in NFHS

[Buckley11]

If you have a "BLARGE" in NFHS rules, the casebook cites the scenario where the ball goes in and you proceed with counting the basket and giving the ball to team B on the endline as the POI. However, we cannot find citation for if the ball DOES NOT go in. It is odd that the NFHS has an exception for the Player Control foul on these types of double fouls and ALLOWS the basket. That being said, if the BLARGE occured and the shot fails, do we proceed with POI and give the ball back to team A because Team A was in control due to "player control", do we go to the arrow, or do we have something else....?

Any thoughts or rule citations you can offer will be helpful.

[Nevadaref]

You are simply using the POI rule in these situations.

If the try was released prior to the contact on the double foul, the basket counts and the POI is the end line throw-in to the team that did not score.

If the try was not released when the collision occurred, then the team that had the ball gets it back at the nearest spot to where the ball was.

If the try was in flight, but was unsuccessful, then there was no team control and neither team is entitled to a throw-in, so the AP arrow must be used.

New case book play 4.19.8 Sit E covers this.

[Jurassic Referee]

NFHS rule 4-35 covers a blarge. Think double foul.

For a shot in the air that doesn't go, use 4-35-2(c).

[Junker]

Also think, "with good mechanics this shouldn't happen."

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are simply using the POI rule in these situations.

If the try was released prior to the contact on the double foul, the basket counts and the POI is the end line throw-in to the team that did not score.

If the try was not released when the collision occurred, then the team that had the ball gets it back at the nearest spot to where the ball was.

If the try was in flight, but was unsuccessful, then there was no team control and neither team is entitled to a throw-in, so the AP arrow must be used.

New case book play 4.19.8 Sit E covers this.

Very impressive - and correctly stated! I also agree with Junker. I have had ONE in one of my games, but I can assure you I was NOT involved. I was the one plotting my quick escape route. . .

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Buckley11

If you have a "BLARGE" in NFHS rules, the casebook cites the scenario where the ball goes in and you proceed with counting the basket and giving the ball to team B on the endline as the POI. However, we cannot find citation for if the ball DOES NOT go in. It is odd that the NFHS has an exception for the Player Control foul on these types of double fouls and ALLOWS the basket. That being said, if the BLARGE occured and the shot fails, do we proceed with POI and give the ball back to team A because Team A was in control due to "player control", do we go to the arrow, or do we have something else....?

Any thoughts or rule citations you can offer will be helpful.

Its just a double foul. POI. Report both and resume the game from when it was interrupted.

[Buckley11]

I concur with Junker, I WILL NOT have one as I HOLD my preliminary signal on simi whistles. Thorough pre-game of this assures that we will give it up to primary and in dual coverage areas we will "give it up" to where the play originated.

The college rule book is much more clear on how to handle this 'double foul' because we can score a bucket on this "charging" foul when the ball is "off".

I guess I was over analyzing things in the NFHS because we NEVER count a basket on a player control, no matter where the ball is when the contact occurs. On the other hand, there is NO team control on a shot. Somewhat of a contradiction to count a basket on a player control foul, but I will write it off as one of the "exceptions" since it is cited in the case book. I look forward to reading up on POI as it relates to the failed shot attempt when ball was "off", and when the Team A player was holding the ball at the time of contact.....Player control vs. Team control.

Thanks for you input......Why can't the NCAA and NFHS get together on rules and mechanics....aren't their offices just steps away from one another...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Buckley11

I concur with Junker, I WILL NOT have one as I HOLD my preliminary signal on simi whistles.

Good luck with that. I wish I was that good. I imagine that the NCAA D1 officials that I have seen involved in blarges also wished that they had been that good too.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Buckley11

The college rule book is much more clear on how to handle this 'double foul' because we can score a bucket on this "charging" foul when the ball is "off".

But you also count it in high school if the try is released before the contact.

I guess I was over analyzing things in the NFHS because we NEVER count a basket on a player control, no matter where the ball is when the contact occurs.

This is true, but a "blarge" is not a player control foul. It is a double foul.

Why can't the NCAA and NFHS get together on rules and mechanics....

On this particular rule, the NFHS and NCAA men's rules are identical. The women's rule is different, however.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Good luck with that. I wish I was that good. I imagine that the NCAA D1 officials that I have seen involved in blarges also wished that they had been that good too.

Yep. And every once in a while, you get a double whistle, but don't realize it because both whistles were so completely simultaneous. There's not a lot you can do if you don't realize you're partner also had a whistle.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Yep. And every once in a while, you get a double whistle, but don't realize it because both whistles were so completely simultaneous. There's not a lot you can do if you don't realize you're partner also had a whistle.

In the immortal words of Mother Theresa.."Shiznit happens"

[deecee]

this has happened where I had a different call than my partner but I hold my whistle and he has already made his preliminary. I just let it go and discuss with him at first break. If coach asks I said I had what my partner had.

It has taken my about a year or 2 to get used to a patient whistle when out of primary and in gray area calls or even sometimes where there could be dual coverage and who I am working with to hold off on preliminary signals.

It is very rare that I use a quick preliminary and it is usually in a block/charge where it is 100% in my coverage area and i usually go -- tweet -- preliminary block/charge -- count or disallow the basket -- and point 1 shot/2 shot/or other direction. I have even been known to use the *cough* approved mechanics of going tweet/signal block/"good if it goes"/score basket if made/signal 1 shot and let my partner know shooter. I personally love the block/charge situations as they really test your judgement and ability to officiate the defense and communicate with everyone involved what happened and the fact that what happened is RIGHT because you sell it well. Strong block/charge call makes everything you do easier as that is such a difficult play sometimes especially in 2 man. But I have never and will never have a blarge in a game I do because IMO you can only have one a block or a charge -- you only get blarges when both officials jump the gun and prelim and say what they have.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

In the immortal words of Mother Theresa.."Shiznit happens"

I don't think she spells it with an "h".

(Yea, it's a straight line. I'm feeling generous at the moment.)

[Jway44]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Good luck with that. I wish I was that good. I imagine that the NCAA D1 officials that I have seen involved in blarges also wished that they had been that good too.

Here in NC our Varsity Association makes it a point of emphasis each year to be sure and give absolutely no preliminary signal at any time until you are positive that there has not been any other whistle blown. If there has been a double whistle, then there is a "nod" given from one ref to the other to take the call and go on. There are still guys that screw it up throughout the season, but the better officials do a nice job of it in our assosciation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jway44

There are still guys that screw it up throughout the season, but the better officials do a nice job of it in our assosciation.

But if you think that your better officials will never screw it up, you're just deluding yourself. That was my point.