PC, Block or No-Call (video)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

1- If he gets hit and goes down I don't know why. He could be embelishing, he could have been off balance trying to lean away to avoid/protect, he might just ahve bailed out because he doesn't like getting in the chest because he's a big pu$$. I can't make that judgement. A kid who barely gets hit and goes down is not "faking" being fouled/hit if only because you have no way of knowing what the thought process or motivation for going down that hard would be.

Come on, that is a really weak cop out. It isn't that hard to tell. I don't have to know what he was thinking when you can see what they do.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

2 - The wording "faking being fouled" is inherently poor. To my mind the fake has to be for faking contact.

Except that isn't what the rule says at all.

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

If the fake isn't for faking contact, but rather faking a foul . . . how can anyone fake a foul. Its only a foul if we judge contact to be a foul. He can't fake blow your whistle for u? He can fake contact or fake excessive contact but until you blow your whistle its not a foul, and if you call it a foul he's not faking. If its only a foul if you call it then he can't fake what you are going to call. So by definition you could never actually call this if you interpretted foul literrally which is why I tend to infer that it must mean faking contact.

What is all that silly stuff for. The rule isn't unclear like you're trying to make it. I agree that it may not be one we should enforce to the letter or even close but you're just making yourself look silly with all of those gymnastics you're having to go through to avoid taking the rule for what it is.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Really? You think that the defender actively tripped the offensive player while on the ground?
This isn't a college game. Don't apply NCAA rules to the defender!

What NCAA-specific rule would that be?

NFHS 10-6-1
A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

What NCAA-specific rule would that be?

NFHS 10-6-1
A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.

The one which states that a player down on the floor doesn't have LGP (NCAA) as opposed to the NFHS ruling which states that he does have a legal spot and shouldn't be penalized unless he clearly grabs or purposely trips an opponent.

Both rulings have been posted on this forum several times in the past.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

What NCAA-specific rule would that be?

NFHS 10-6-1
A player shall not hold, push, charge, trip or impede the progress of an opponent by extending arm(s), shoulder(s), hip(s) or knee(s), or by bending his/her body into other than a normal position; nor use any rough tactics.

I don't see any of those that this defender did. His foot remained where it was when he had LGP...he didn't extended it or anything.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Block...defenders legs were real wide...

I don't think that matters in this case.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The one which states that a player down on the floor doesn't have LGP (NCAA) as opposed to the NFHS ruling which states that he does have a legal spot and shouldn't be penalized unless he clearly grabs or purposely trips an opponent.

Both rulings have been posted on this forum several times in the past.

Forgot. I do that more often now.

[#olderthanilook]

This is probably considered a 50/50, which means the crew needs to be aware of a similar play yielding a similar (play on) result on the other end. ( Which does not mean the crew passes on everything similar. )

[saluki34]

from video angle it looks like the O initiated the contact = PC. It looks like the L has a real good look/angle on it, should have called something.

Late in the game doesn't mean you don't apply the rules.

IMO

[Raymond]

I have a PC.

If you don't have a PC because you think B1 flopped, then you have to call a tripping foul on B1.

This one has to have a whistle.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Really? You think that the defender actively tripped the offensive player while on the ground?
This isn't a college game. Don't apply NCAA rules to the defender!

What a cowardly stance to avoid calling the foul.

B1 trips A1, that is plain as day. B1 wasn't already lying on the floor. And B1's right leg up in air at a 45 degree angle is not a legal guarding position. Please, get real.

PC or Block (trip). A no-call is an incorrect call.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

B1 trips A1, that is plain as day. B1 wasn't already lying on the floor. And B1's right leg up in air at a 45 degree angle is not a legal guarding position. Please, get real.

I see A1 fall because his momentum has taken him through a stationary defender that has LGP. A block/trip would be a brutal call here IMO. Its PC or nothing. Or you could call a bail out travel I guess.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

This is probably considered a 50/50, which means the crew needs to be aware of a similar play yielding a similar (play on) result on the other end. ( Which does not mean the crew passes on everything similar. )

Then what does it mean?

[referee99]

Everything about this play is consistent with the way this crew worked the game.

[stick]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

PC. Embellishment yes, but overembellishment (aka: flop) no. I've no-called over embellishments before, but I think I would have PC'd this play.

L is looking right at it though, and C let him take/not take it. If you are that L, do you have a problem with a C who came in and got that one?

That might be because the C was too far back to get the best view of the play. The L was right there in pristine position. You pose a good question though. Working with two officials last night that I never worked with before we discussed this very thing in our pre-game. We suggested the L should make that call but if the play is on the side of the C it's his call. It's OK if a double whistle in which case they look to each other to determine the primary and then the call is made.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

What a cowardly stance to avoid calling the foul.

B1 trips A1, that is plain as day. B1 wasn't already lying on the floor. And B1's right leg up in air at a 45 degree angle is not a legal guarding position. Please, get real.

PC or Block (trip). A no-call is an incorrect call.

I agree with this description. B1's flop causes his right leg/foot to go in between A1's legs causing him to trip and fall. Two bodies on the floor in this particular plays needs a whistle, one way or the other.

Although L rotated pretty well, he didn't get positioned the way he needs to. He needs to be positioned 45 degrees towards the paint, not parallel to the baseline. Shoot, you could almost argue he's angled to some degree towards the sideline! One more step 'out' and getting 45 degrees could have given him a much clearer angle on this play.