PC, Block or No-Call (video)

[JRutledge]

Looks like a flop. I think I have a block considering the flop ended up tripping the player.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Looks like a flop. I think I have a block considering the flop ended up tripping the player.

Peace

My thoughts as well. I also think the C could've picked up the block - or at least been more comfortable calling it - if he'd been at the FTLE as opposed to above the top of the key. Regardless, I don't think this was a play on.

[Pantherdreams]

Not to start a storm here but in order:

1) I've got a PC. Player was in proper guarding position and offense intitated the contact. This has been something I've been looking at in therms of my officaiting and in games I can get ape of. IME, If we don't get these and call them charges you end up with the majority of 50/50 calls turn into 80/20 calls. Where defense gets called for the block at least 1/2 the time or more when trying to draw and charge and then no called to the point where only the most extreme pc's get called and they only get a charge go 10-20% of the time.

2) Even if you don't think the contact is enough to have caused him to go down and want to no call it, IMO, that is not flopping. I equate the term flopping with faking being fouled, he isn't faking contact that doesn't exist and as the defender is allowed to move backwards and absorb contact/protect themselves. If he doesn't want to stand there until you make the kid collapse his chest that's not faking being fouled.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

IMO, that is not flopping. I equate the term flopping with faking being fouled, he isn't faking contact that doesn't exist and as the defender is allowed to move backwards and absorb contact/protect themselves. If he doesn't want to stand there until you make the kid collapse his chest that's not faking being fouled.

Flopping isn't only faking contact, it is also faking the amount of contact in an attempt to make the contact look worse than it was.....which is what this defender did.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Flopping isn't only faking contact, it is also faking the amount of contact in an attempt to make the contact look worse than it was.....which is what this defender did.

True, but there's no rule against this. It may be counterproductive, but it's not illegal.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

True, but there's no rule against this. It may be counterproductive, but it's not illegal.

Sure it is. The rule is for faking being "fouled". It is not for faking contact. If the player wasn't fouled (which you judge by not calling a foul) but tried to make it look like he was fouled, then he faked being fouled.

We may not call it so strictly, giving the benefit of doubt in most cases, but that is what the rules say.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sure it is. The rule is for faking being "fouled". It is not for faking contact. If the player wasn't fouled (which you judge by not calling a foul) but tried to make it look like he was fouled, then he faked being fouled.

We may not call it so strictly, giving the benefit of doubt in most cases, but that is what the rules say.

If he really got "fouled" he wasn't "faking being fouled" but rather exaggerating the effect of the foul. Is this a part of the rule? When I think of a T here I think of a true flop, a player who falls with little to no contact.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sure it is. The rule is for faking being "fouled". It is not for faking contact. If the player wasn't fouled (which you judge by not calling a foul) but tried to make it look like he was fouled, then he faked being fouled.

We may not call it so strictly, giving the benefit of doubt in most cases, but that is what the rules say.

I guess this is where we differ.

1- If he gets hit and goes down I don't know why. He could be embelishing, he could have been off balance trying to lean away to avoid/protect, he might just ahve bailed out because he doesn't like getting in the chest because he's a big pu$$. I can't make that judgement. A kid who barely gets hit and goes down is not "faking" being fouled/hit if only because you have no way of knowing what the thought process or motivation for going down that hard would be.

If the kid doesn't get touched and goes down as if he was u can pretty easily make the assumption he's faking something.

2 - The wording "faking being fouled" is inherently poor. To my mind the fake has to be for faking contact. If the fake isn't for faking contact, but rather faking a foul . . . how can anyone fake a foul. Its only a foul if we judge contact to be a foul. He can't fake blow your whistle for u? He can fake contact or fake excessive contact but until you blow your whistle its not a foul, and if you call it a foul he's not faking. If its only a foul if you call it then he can't fake what you are going to call. So by definition you could never actually call this if you interpretted foul literrally which is why I tend to infer that it must mean faking contact.

[#olderthanilook]

This is probably considered a 50/50, which means the crew needs to be aware of a similar play yielding a similar (play on) result on the other end. ( Which does not mean the crew passes on everything similar. )

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

This is probably considered a 50/50, which means the crew needs to be aware of a similar play yielding a similar (play on) result on the other end. ( Which does not mean the crew passes on everything similar. )

Then what does it mean?

[OKREF]

PC, if I have a call.defense emblished some.

[Bad Zebra]

Block...defenders legs were real wide...he looks like he flopped...then tripped the shooter.

[just another ref]

I don't think there's any question that the defender exaggerated, but I think there was significant contact which was definitely initiated by the shooter.

[just another ref]

Too many still believe this:

It can't be a charge because nobody fell down.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Block...defenders legs were real wide...he looks like he flopped...then tripped the shooter.

Who cares? The contact happened on the torso.