Block-Charges (video)

[JetMetFan]

It seems as though the gallery is in need of plays to discuss, so...

From the NCAAW D3 National Semi #1. A few FYIs...take them for what they're worth.

*The same official made both calls
*They were about 2½ minutes apart but the second play was the first block/charge situation after the first

Play #1




Play #2

[JRutledge]

I have two charges at least using NF or NCAAW rules.

Both very close, but I think the defenders got there in time. And any slight movement was not enough for me to not call a charge.

Peace

[Rob1968]

So, T makes the call on Video 1, involving a secondary defender, and L is motionless . . .?
Then, L makes the call on Video 2, involving a secondary defender, and T is motionless . . .?

Which is according to guidelines, at that level?

Would a dbl whistle be appropriate in either?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, T makes the call on Video 1, involving a secondary defender, and L is motionless . . .?
Then, L makes the call on Video 2, involving a secondary defender, and T is motionless . . .?

Which is according to guidelines, at that level?

Would a dbl whistle be appropriate in either?

I cannot speak directly for what is expected in NCAA Women's basketball as it relates to these plays. But I do feel there is nothing wrong with a double whistle and nothing wrong with one official in each situation taking this call. It is possible the L was surprised by the play and did not call anything in the first play and waited for the T to take the call. But a double whistle on both would be appropriate in most situations.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

First play: block. The defender was never in the path prior to the shooter going airborne. The shooter was coming directly at the camera and you could see her entire torso, unobstructed, until after she was airborne. Only after going airborne did the defender get in the path. Plus, the trail needs to let the lead have that one.

Second play: Charge. Contact even occurred before the shooter was airborne so it was only a matter of getting in the path with both feet down before contact. The defender got in the path got the 2nd foot down just before contact. That was the correct official to make the call and it was incredibly close so I can't fault anyone for having a different opinion on this one.

Play 1: I want to no-call this, but I'm not sure I could justify it to my superior. Block.

Play 2: First angle made me think block, second angle made me think charge. Go figure.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, T makes the call on Video 1, involving a secondary defender, and L is motionless . . .?
Then, L makes the call on Video 2, involving a secondary defender, and T is motionless . . .?

Which is according to guidelines, at that level?

Would a dbl whistle be appropriate in either?

Under NCAAW Play #1 happened in reverse. The play starts in the L's primary - barely - but the pressure at the FT line extended means the T should keep it. It also means the L is supposed to pick up secondary defenders to deal with any RA plays. I think Jeff is right in that the L was surprised. Look at his head/eyes. When the drive begins, he's watching #11 White beat her defender. As she approaches the lane it doesn't appear as though he ever looks in front of her to pick up secondary defenders. Then as the shot goes up, he looks up at the ball. The T pretty much saved them by putting a whistle on the play even though it was really late.

On play #2 you could have a double whistle but NCAAW tends to frown on those so it's L first crack at it, T second.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

First play...the trail needs to let the lead have that one.

He did but the L didn't do anything and someone had to do something since that wasn't a no-call. That's why the whistle was so late. And no, the time lag wasn't an issue with the clip. That's how long it took for the T to blow.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have two charges at least using NF or NCAAW rules.

Both very close, but I think the defenders got there in time. And any slight movement was not enough for me to not call a charge.

Peace

Jeff -

Just curious: what would you have under NCAAM?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Jeff -

Just curious: what would you have under NCAAM?

I probably would call the same I stated. But with them changing the language, I need more clarification to feel differently about these plays.

Peace

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I cannot speak directly for what is expected in NCAA Women's basketball as it relates to these plays. But I do feel there is nothing wrong with a double whistle and nothing wrong with one official in each situation taking this call. It is possible the L was surprised by the play and did not call anything in the first play and waited for the T to take the call. But a double whistle on both would be appropriate in most situations.

Peace

So, when there is a dbl whistle on such plays, how do you sort it out? In your pre-game conference w/partners, what do you do to define your crew's method of determining who takes the call?

[johnny d]

Under the new NCAA-M guidelines, both of these plays would be blocks.

Under last years guidelines, I have charge on both.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I have a charge on #1 & block on #2.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, when there is a dbl whistle on such plays, how do you sort it out? In your pre-game conference w/partners, what do you do to define your crew's method of determining who takes the call?

Under the code this game was played, primary takes precedence. I can't speak for NCAAM.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The T pretty much saved them by putting a whistle on the play even though it was really late.

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

Cam -

I don't know if JMF used the right word in "SAVED", but I do agree that that play needed a whistle. If someone comes a second late on an obvious crash ( that we all agree is close ), I rather have a whistle, than a crash with nothing. IMO the trail has stones....I like that.