Common Sense

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

But if I were to have seen it, or my partner, no matter what it's a T.

Do you mean that if your partner tells you he saw it and passed on it, you would call a T?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Do you mean that if your partner tells you he saw it and passed on it, you would call a T?

I would ideally like him to make the call, but yes I would discuss it with him and if he didn't posses the testicular fortitude I would do the heavy lifting. It's a T, and not a judgement call.

I would also make it clear to him that I would report the situation to the assignor, if after a discussion he didn't want to call the T, and that he would be CC'd on any correspondence as he would be completely neglecting his responsibility.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by OKREF

+1. So what if you do see it? Doesn't pop the rim, just jumps up and grabs it and let's go. 4 tenths left. Anybody calling it?

Yes, that's an infraction. The rule states "grasp either basket" so that includes not only the ring, but the net, flange, and any braces too.

Stop fussing over whether or not a movable ring flexed or snapped. That is not part of or required by the rule.

Don't care about the time remaining or the score! Have the courage to make any call at anytime in the contest.

For the OP, if none of the officials observed it, it shouldn't be called.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

I would ideally like him to make the call, but yes I would discuss it with him and if he didn't posses the testicular fortitude I would do the heavy lifting. It's a T, and not a judgement call.

I think every T involves a certain amount of judgment with regard to the context of the action. Do you call a T every time somebody on the bench makes a travel signal? "shall not attempt to influence an official's decision."
Would you call one if your partner told you he had seen this?

A brief show of exuberance for a kid who erroneously thought the game was over is unlikely to draw a T from me, let alone if I hear about it second hand.
jmo

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I think every T involves a certain amount of judgment with regard to the context of the action. Do you call a T every time somebody on the bench makes a travel signal? "shall not attempt to influence an official's decision."
Would you call one if your partner told you he had seen this?

A brief show of exuberance for a kid who erroneously thought the game was over is unlikely to draw a T from me, let alone if I hear about it second hand.
jmo

This is my thought as well.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by OKREF

This is my thought as well.

Sometimes there is discretion in calling a technical foul and sometimes there isn't. For unsporting technicals, actions which everyone in the gym can see need to be dealt with according to the rules.
Passing on the action described in the OP would be wrong. There is a clear rule which the player broke and he did it in front of everyone.
Btw even if time had expired, if he did this before the officials left, he still gets penalized, so don't use the excuse that he thought the game was over.

[#olderthanilook]

Varsity level playoff game? Only two officials? If so, that may be one reason why the action wasn't seen by someone on the crew. Probably not the only thing the crew "didn't see" that night through no fault of their own. Just a thought.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

end of story

Exactly, I'm not going to ask non-officials if someone committed a foul or violation.

[MD Longhorn]

If I see it, it's a T.
If my partner saw it, passed on it, and tells me he saw it, it's a T.

This is not a judgement call.

If neither of us sees it, there's NO CHANCE I'm asking the scorekeepers if they saw it, and certainly no chance I'm asking any players.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Btw even if time had expired, if he did this before the officials left, he still gets penalized, so don't use the excuse that he thought the game was over.

Let us know how the conversation with your assignor goes when you take the opportunity to call this after one of your games. I am sure your assignor will be pleased you got the rule right

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Let us know how the conversation with your assignor goes when you take the opportunity to call this after one of your games. I am sure your assignor will be pleased you got the rule right

Did you learn anything from the Arizona/Arizona St 2OT game earlier this year?
This kind of behavior needs to be penalized no matter what is on the clock.

Guess you are still part of the camp saying that the game has been decided, so leave this alone. How did that work out for that crew with the PAC12 assignor?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Did you learn anything from the Arizona/Arizona St 2OT game earlier this year?
This kind of behavior needs to be penalized no matter what is on the clock.

Guess you are still part of the camp saying that the game has been decided, so leave this alone. How did that work out for that crew with the PAC12 assignor?

The difference was that in the AZ vs ASU game time hadn't expired and the T should have been called. If the ASU player waited for the clock to run out and then dunked the ball and hung on the rim like that, not one person would have said a thing. Like I said in my previous post, good luck calling that after the time has expired. People will be impressed with you rules knowledge.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If I see it, it's a T.
If my partner saw it, passed on it, and tells me he saw it, it's a T.

This is not a judgement call.

If neither of us sees it, there's NO CHANCE I'm asking the scorekeepers if they saw it, and certainly no chance I'm asking any players.

Since this is not a judgement call, I think you have a obligation to confer with the scorekeeper and/or timer as they are part of your crew.

I see this similarly to a situation if neither official saw if a basket was made on a shooting foul. This is not a judgement call either, the ball either went in the basket or it didn't. I would hope you would confer with your table in that situation, because you should.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Since this is not a judgement call, I think you have a obligation to confer with the scorekeeper and/or timer as they are part of your crew.

I see this similarly to a situation if neither official saw if a basket was made on a shooting foul. This is not a judgement call either, the ball either went in the basket or it didn't. I would hope you would confer with your table in that situation, because you should.

The rules tell us we can confer with the table for some scoring issues. I would not consult the table for something like this.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The rules tell us we can confer with the table for some scoring issues. I would not consult the table for something like this.

Comparing this to a scoring ruling is ridiculous IMO.