Marcus Smart shove - OK State/Texas Tech (Video)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Either you have no clue what I'm talking about (or what you're talking about for that matter) or you're being a clown. Parents move for their kid's athletic purpose. Its happened quite a bit. In Texas, it is a violation of UIL rules. Anyway, I doubt the parent does it without the full cooperation and knowledge of the kid. In Smart's situation, he actually lived with a teammate at the new HS for a while -- and not his own family. If I were you, I would refrain from commenting on things you clearly don't know the facts on. If you needed some clarification, please ask.

The relevance it has to the situation -- and I really can't believe I have to spell this out -- is that given this incident is a question of credibility -- what Smart said vs. what the fan said, my point was that Smart's past tended to point to some possible credibility issues. You can of course make your own decision, but to suggest his past is not relevant to his propensity to tell the truth is absolutely absurd.

His credibility is affected by decisions made by his parents to move to another residence, or to pull him out of a school and enroll him in another school?

Sorry, but my 15 year-old can not switch schools, I make that decision. My 15 year-old most definitely can't just move to a new residence.

I've had to move both my sons to different schools (without moving). My kids had ZERO input on the matters. Those decisions included switching their legal residence from one parent to the other, even though no actual changes were made to our custody arrangements. Say we did it for sports-related reasons. So because my ex' and I made some decisions about school enrollment, our sons' credibility comes into question when they are sophomores in college? Wow!!!

And I'm being a clown?

[Rich1]

I ref by night but my day job is coaching HS in Texas. Here is how it works:

If an athlete comes out for my team who was not at my school last year or did not attend one of my junior high feeder schools, I must fill out a "prior athletic participation form" (PAPF). The form is signed by AD and is then sent to the kids old school for the old coach and AD to sign before it is filed with the UIL. If the old school feels the kid has moved JUST for athletic reasons (not a job transfer, etc.) then they note it on the form and UIL will investigate. If not, then the kid is eligible day 1. The athlete may not participate in varsity sports until it is resolved but there is no limition on sub-varsity.

In my 15+ years of coaching I have never denied a kid nor had one denied. I have had some transfer under suspicious reasons (suddenly had apt. on other side of town but rest of family still works & lives here) but its not worth the hassle unless you have solid evidence so it is rarely enforced.

By the way, this applies to athletics only. Yes, a band student can move with no penalty. In fact, a kid can win a $10,000 cash prize for playing the piano but an athlete can'the given anything of real value -- as a coach I can't even give a poor kid lunch money or let them keep the used shoes we play in at the dnd of the season. But, the rules came about out of necessity due to extreme cheating so in reality they are good policies (check out "Friday Night Lights" if your not familiar).

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All the blame? So when did it become a good thing for a person to call someone a "Piece of crap" and not expect someone to confront them? Would he call him that on the street? Would he call him that on the road? Would he call him that in the bar?

As already pointed out, nobody said it was a good thing, but in this case, no, I don't think the guy expected to be confronted, because most players would know better and exercise self-restraint. What if it was on the street. You cut in front of somebody in line, maybe by accident. The guy says "Watch it, you piece of crap," and you punch his lights out. Who you think will get arrested?

Sorry but even if that is all he said, what part of society is it OK to call someone a name like that and it be the fault of the person that confronts you?

The answer to that, sadly, is at ball games. Offensive is in the eye of the beholder, to some degree. Quite often at a game, especially when several calls in a row go against one team, I hear the word that I dislike most which is "CHEATER". Call me blind, call me stupid, but don't call me a cheater. But take this to game management and see how much support you get.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich1

I ref by night but my day job is coaching HS in Texas. Here is how it works:

If an athlete comes out for my team who was not at my school last year or did not attend one of my junior high feeder schools, I must fill out a "prior athletic participation form" (PAPF). The form is signed by AD and is then sent to the kids old school for the old coach and AD to sign before it is filed with the UIL. If the old school feels the kid has moved JUST for athletic reasons (not a job transfer, etc.) then they note it on the form and UIL will investigate. If not, then the kid is eligible day 1. The athlete may not participate in varsity sports until it is resolved but there is no limition on sub-varsity.

In my 15+ years of coaching I have never denied a kid nor had one denied. I have had some transfer under suspicious reasons (suddenly had apt. on other side of town but rest of family still works & lives here) but its not worth the hassle unless you have solid evidence so it is rarely enforced.

By the way, this applies to athletics only. Yes, a band student can move with no penalty. In fact, a kid can win a $10,000 cash prize for playing the piano but an athlete can'the given anything of real value -- as a coach I can't even give a poor kid lunch money or let them keep the used shoes we play in at the dnd of the season. But, the rules came about out of necessity due to extreme cheating so in reality they are good policies (check out "Friday Night Lights" if your not familiar).

Thanks for providing some insight and facts.

[CountTheBasket]

Thanks for those who provided the insight on the TX moving for athletics rule, it does make more sense to me now knowing the process and why it was put into place.

I think no matter what, Smart needs to hold himself to a higher standard for his own benefit if no other reason. Everyone knows who he is, nobody knows who obnoxious Texas Tech fan in row 2 is. Because of this incident, he now has to deal with questions about his character from potential future employers (NBA Teams) which he otherwise may not have had to answer. I have to imagine this very minimally affects the life of (probably) very wealthy TT donor in row 2, outside of a few internet blogs that will blow over.

All that being said, it is hard to process all those thoughts in the heat of a moment, especially being 19 years old. The incident could've turned much worse and thankfully for all it didn't. Hopefully he learns from it as I'm sure he will.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Either you have no clue what I'm talking about (or what you're talking about for that matter) or you're being a clown. Parents move for their kid's athletic purpose. Its happened quite a bit. In Texas, it is a violation of UIL rules. Anyway, I doubt the parent does it without the full cooperation and knowledge of the kid. In Smart's situation, he actually lived with a teammate at the new HS for a while -- and not his own family. If I were you, I would refrain from commenting on things you clearly don't know the facts on. If you needed some clarification, please ask.

The relevance it has to the situation -- and I really can't believe I have to spell this out -- is that given this incident is a question of credibility -- what Smart said vs. what the fan said, my point was that Smart's past tended to point to some possible credibility issues. You can of course make your own decision, but to suggest his past is not relevant to his propensity to tell the truth is absolutely absurd.

While I'll agree that circumventing the rules is problematic, I disagree that it has relevance. It's something he did as a kid, under the guidance of adults who should have known better. It has no bearing whatsoever on his credibility on this matter.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

For an example of a kid who's family moved prior to his 8th grade year, the NFL backup QB Chase Daniel of (???). I forgot where he is now. Moved to the Southlake school district, played for SL Carroll, went to Mizzou, and is now in the NFL. There was no UIL issue.

Kansas City Chiefs.

Originally Posted by Adam

While I'll agree that circumventing the rules is problematic, I disagree that it has relevance. It's something he did as a kid, under the guidance of adults who should have known better. It has no bearing whatsoever on his credibility on this matter.

I agree. It's quite the stretch to think that his reason for moving schools in high school has anything to do with this incident.

And I also agree that he is responsible for keeping his cool when idiot fans try to provoke him. The fan is obviously a loose cannon and thinks he can get away with whatever verbal taunts he wants, but Smart can't do what he did and not expect to be punished. (I don't think he expected that, just saying)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Kansas City Chiefs.



I agree. It's quite the stretch to think that his reason for moving schools in high school has anything to do with this incident.

And I also agree that he is responsible for keeping his cool when idiot fans try to provoke him. The fan is obviously a loose cannon and thinks he can get away with whatever verbal taunts he wants, but Smart can't do what he did and not expect to be punished. (I don't think he expected that, just saying)

On the flip side. Maybe the fear of having a 6'4" athlete in his prime confront him for acting like such a moron might put the fear of God into him. I'm not condoning the actions of Smart, regardless of what the idiot said, but a loose cannon going off every now and then might not be a bad thing.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

... but a loose cannon going off every now and then might not be a bad thing.

It works with coaches.

[ronny mulkey]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

10 rows in, seriously. So Smart, who had just got helped to his feet by a fan, ran up 7 more rows to push the a$$-hole? If the guy was in row 10 while Smart was in row 3, how the hell did Smart know this guy said something?

That's what you saw? GTFOH

The jack-wagon was standing right there in the first row.

Badnews,

I may be wrong on the number of rows but Smart was moving rapidly and fell head long into the crowd and he is a long guy( (# of rows?) Whatever the guy said, he didn't bend over and whisper in his ear. Then Smart gets up and takes several giant steps more into the stands (#of rows?)

I'm not going to call you a troll or anything else, but the guy was not standing there in the front row.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey

Badnews,

I may be wrong on the number of rows but Smart was moving rapidly and fell head long into the crowd and he is a long guy( (# of rows?) Whatever the guy said, he didn't bend over and whisper in his ear. Then Smart gets up and takes several giant steps more into the stands (#of rows?)

I'm not going to call you a troll or anything else, but the guy was not standing there in the front row.

Jeff Orr seat is in the first of row of seats behind the basket, 2nd seat from the aisle. A fact that you refuse to accept.

Plus you accuse Smart of playing the "race card", whatever that is, followed by purposely making a completely untrue statement about Smart running up 10 rows to shove Orr.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I feel sorry for kids whose parents are in the military, or lost a job, or got divorced, or had a lease expire, and were forced to move.

In such an instance, it would be rather easy to prove that the reason you moved was not athletics. No need to feel sorry for them.

[MD Longhorn]

"Dad - I'm sick of playing for Suck High School - they are awful, scouts are never going to see me play."
"OK, son - go live with these people and you can change schools and play for a better team."

"Ah ... cool. I'm an athlete, I will be coddled and provided for - I can do whatever I want."

Athletic affluenza.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

"Dad - I'm sick of playing for Suck High School - they are awful, scouts are never going to see me play."
"OK, son - go live with these people and you can change schools and play for a better team."

"Ah ... cool. I'm an athlete, I will be coddled and provided for - I can do whatever I want."

Athletic affluenza.

I don't really see what the problem is to provide kids the best opportunity to maximize their potential. If changing school means he gets into a better college, that makes him a better player that allows him to play in the NBA and make money, ISN'T THAT WHAT LIFES ABOUT?

This isn't coddling, its like you or I changing jobs because one sucks. Coddling would be the kid breaks the law and isn't punished. These stupid athletic laws are all political based and don't address the fundamental issue. Corruption and greed. Where the kid wants to play should not be the issue. Coaches, alumni, school districts providing illegal benefits that are not otherwise afforded other students, that's illegal. If a private school wants to give the kid free tuition, room and board, and a part time gig that pays well, that's on them.

The fact is that great athletes bring in the money and all these half-assed policies are set in place to protect ONE THING only. The institution. The athlete doesn't see a penny, and are used as the pawn in the bigger picture. That's my issue. That's what rubs me. If amateur sports were so altruistic then why are coaches of big programs at the high school and college level so well taken care of?

How can bigger programs afford amazing facilities and survive off the money that the sports bring in? These laws (and this covers the NCAA too) is only to protect the individual schools from making sure they can capitalize of an athlete and get as much cheese as they can before he/she moves on. It is not about "fairness" and "equality" its about M.O.N.E.Y.

Show me one adult who hates their job and a better alternative comes up and they don't take it because it isn't "fair". Why do life's rules not apply to athletics? Because it's all about the cheese and the athlete is the cheesemaker.

[/end rant]

[Adam]

This is a tough topic. Let's keep it civil.