Marcus Smart shove - OK State/Texas Tech (Video)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by johnny d

How exactly is the state of TX going to prevent you from selling your old house or letting your lease expire and then buying a new house or signing a new lease in a different town? Once you have moved, if you decide to send your son to a public school doesn't it have to be the one that serves the community you live in?

The burden of proof is on the person moving. There are numerous cases of people moving, being unable to prove they didn't do it for athletics, and finding their kid has to sit a year (or more) from high school athletics. I know one (softball) personally. I also know of one that didn't get challenged and completely got away with it... so they aren't perfect.

[deecee]

So instead of punishing the school districts and or setting strict eligibility rules the state of TX makes a knee jerk policy that effects the kids and the families. The little I know about TX this seems about right.

Guilty until proven innocent.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by deecee

So instead of punishing the school districts and or setting strict eligibility rules the state of TX makes a knee jerk policy that effects the kids and the families. The little I know about TX this seems about right.

Guilty until proven innocent.

I think you're looking at it backward. They DO have strict eligibility rules. If you have a player that has moved to your district, you must prove they didn't do it for athletics. Granted - 90% of these moves are players that no one is going to challenge or bring to the UIL's attention - and SOME of those did actually move for athletics. But when a blue chipper moves from urban Houston to live in rural Odessa - it gets noticed.

By the way... how do you, from your far-away spot long distant from any of this back story that you're hearing today for the first time, make the assumption that a policy that has evolved over about 30 years is "knee jerk"?????

[deecee]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

By the way... how do you, from your far-away spot long distant from any of this back story that you're hearing today for the first time, make the assumption that a policy that has evolved over about 30 years is "knee jerk"?????

I didn't I just went by what you wrote about the policy and how its handled, and the fact that the mover is guilty frame of thought just seemed like the policy didn't address the real issue. School board misconduct when it comes to athletics.

So in TX you can buy a gun, no problem, but if you have a high school kid and you buy a new house somewhere else, you have to prove that you DIDNT move because of athletics?

Don't get me wrong, the state of NY has some ass backwards laws and policy too, and I don't know what their laws are regarding this topic. It just seems odd that the family has to prove anything.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If you did that in Texas ... your son might not play sports that year. But more to the point, if you did that (regardless of location) it speaks volumes to the priority set he grew up with.

Why? What if your kid was a band student and you moved to get into a school with a higher caliber band program?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I think you're looking at it backward. They DO have strict eligibility rules. If you have a player that has moved to your district, you must prove they didn't do it for athletics. Granted - 90% of these moves are players that no one is going to challenge or bring to the UIL's attention - and SOME of those did actually move for athletics. But when a blue chipper moves from urban Houston to live in rural Odessa - it gets noticed.

By the way... how do you, from your far-away spot long distant from any of this back story that you're hearing today for the first time, make the assumption that a policy that has evolved over about 30 years is "knee jerk"?????

I feel sorry for kids whose parents are in the military, or lost a job, or got divorced, or had a lease expire, and were forced to move.

[just another ref]

To review: We don't know what the guy said. We do know that the kid went into the stands in an aggressive manner. The kid gets the big part of the blame, no matter what was said. Furthermore, if indeed "piece of crap" was the extent of it, as far as I'm concerned, all the blame belongs to the kid. There are numerous fans yelling things like this (and worse) every night, much of it directed at us, by the way. The difference is nobody pays any attention to them.

The kid has been tried, convicted, and punished, and he seems genuinely remorseful.

End of story.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

To review: We don't know what the guy said. We do know that the kid went into the stands in an aggressive manner. The kid gets the big part of the blame, no matter what was said. Furthermore, if indeed "piece of crap" was the extent of it, as far as I'm concerned, all the blame belongs to the kid. There are numerous fans yelling things like this (and worse) every night, much of it directed at us, by the way. The difference is nobody pays any attention to them.

The kid has been tried, convicted, and punished, and he seems genuinely remorseful.

End of story.

All the blame? So when did it become a good thing for a person to call someone a "Piece of crap" and not expect someone to confront them? Would he call him that on the street? Would he call him that on the road? Would he call him that in the bar?

Sorry but even if that is all he said, what part of society is it OK to call someone a name like that and it be the fault of the person that confronts you? If you did that at a job you might not have a job anymore.

That is what is wrong with this society IMO.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

he doesn't have the means to move from one neighborhood to another

Either you have no clue what I'm talking about (or what you're talking about for that matter) or you're being a clown. Parents move for their kid's athletic purpose. Its happened quite a bit. In Texas, it is a violation of UIL rules. Anyway, I doubt the parent does it without the full cooperation and knowledge of the kid. In Smart's situation, he actually lived with a teammate at the new HS for a while -- and not his own family. If I were you, I would refrain from commenting on things you clearly don't know the facts on. If you needed some clarification, please ask.

The relevance it has to the situation -- and I really can't believe I have to spell this out -- is that given this incident is a question of credibility -- what Smart said vs. what the fan said, my point was that Smart's past tended to point to some possible credibility issues. You can of course make your own decision, but to suggest his past is not relevant to his propensity to tell the truth is absolutely absurd.

[JRutledge]

It is illegal under many state rules to move for athletic reasons. But we all know that no one has to tell anyone why they move. If they do all the things BNR says, you can move. And if I want to go to another house or go work in another community, it is hard to tell anyone they cannot do that. Or better yet, how are you going to prove that was the reasonsing? Parents are doing to do what is best for their kids, even if it is not technically legal under some elgibility rules.

Peace

[deecee]

[QUOTE=Texas Aggie;922235]I doubt the parent does it without the full cooperation and knowledge of the kid.[QUOTE]

Since when are the decisions of adults and parents determined by the will of the kids? I don't disagree that parents do this kind of stuff. But the penalty should be levied on the school district, i.e. loss of games, etc. If a parent is willing to uproot a whole family, and buy a house/and or move to a new city, who cares what the reason is. That's my point. Texas takes HS sports way to serious, and its just as corrupt as the NCAA.

But I don't imagine many adults making a decision based on what their kids thought was best.

[Texas Aggie]

if I have a son in Texas who is an exceptional MS basketball player, and I want to move three towns over because they have a better HS program, the state of TX tries to say you cannot do that?

Well, like anything else, it depends.

I don't know if what I'm stating the rule to be is up to date or not, but as of a year or two ago, here it is: If you have a kid going into the 8th grade, you CAN move for virtually any reason prior to that 8th grade year. After the 8th grade, if you move and your kid participates in sports, they will have to get what's called a PAP -- Previous Athletic Participation form. In it the former school can sign off on the move, or they can suggest it is for athletic purposes. If the latter, the kid will have to sit out varsity competition for one full year. However, if the parent or new school objects, the issue can go to what's called the district committee -- made up mostly of Principals in the new school's UIL district (usually 6-8 schools total). The district can hear evidence and rule, and any ruling can be appealed to the state UIL board. Their ruling is final.

Schools have signed off on kids, and they have protested. Kids have sat out for a year -- often as freshman. Others have protested, and district committees have ruled both ways. The state has gone every which way on appeals.

If you want a summary of an actual example, look up Daxx Garmin online. Perhaps MD Long can chime in as well with what he knows on the subject.

Again, its strictly a credibility issue, and for those of you saying it isn't relevant, you are sadly mistaken.

[Texas Aggie]

For an example of a kid who's family moved prior to his 8th grade year, the NFL backup QB Chase Daniel of (???). I forgot where he is now. Moved to the Southlake school district, played for SL Carroll, went to Mizzou, and is now in the NFL. There was no UIL issue.

[Texas Aggie]

So when did it become a good thing for a person to call someone a "Piece of crap" and not expect someone to confront them?

Nobody said it was a good thing, but as I said earlier, words are never a sufficient provocation for physical violence. He didn't shoot the guy, or even punch him, but he did push him. If the guy had fallen over and hit his head, he could have been seriously injured.

Coaches are responsible for teaching their kids that if they have a problem on the floor, they need to address an official about it. The official then notifies the host school for security issues. This was a conference game of one of the 5 or 6 most well known college conferences. At the very least, OSU could file a report with the Big 12 who would then be responsible for handling it. Shoving a guy is not anywhere in that mix.

JR, you know better than anyone on here there are right ways and wrong ways to handle a situation. We can't excuse ANY PART of wrong behavior just because someone MIGHT have had a good reason for being upset.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Nobody said it was a good thing, but as I said earlier, words are never a sufficient provocation for physical violence. He didn't shoot the guy, or even punch him, but he did push him. If the guy had fallen over and hit his head, he could have been seriously injured.

Coaches are responsible for teaching their kids that if they have a problem on the floor, they need to address an official about it. The official then notifies the host school for security issues. This was a conference game of one of the 5 or 6 most well known college conferences. At the very least, OSU could file a report with the Big 12 who would then be responsible for handling it. Shoving a guy is not anywhere in that mix.

JR, you know better than anyone on here there are right ways and wrong ways to handle a situation. We can't excuse ANY PART of wrong behavior just because someone MIGHT have had a good reason for being upset.

First of all my response that you quoted was not towards you. You cannot really answer my question as you did not make the statement I had an issue with.

Secondly I did not say anything about justifying bad behavior. I do not know why I have to be offended by one behavior and have to somehow justify the action or reaction. Honestly I think if the fan keeps his mouth shut, none of this happens. But that does not mean that I do not feel the reaction was wrong and Smart said as much in his press conference. And I never said the suspension was not warranted. I think he was lucky not to get more games for a suspension.

Peace