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I can fault them a bit because they (and you) are NOT correct - but can't fault them too much because if they only read the rulebook, they would be left with the conclusion that it's a personal foul (as per your explanation) and it's also a technical foul (per the definition of a punch) ... lacking clinic guidance or published stuff that people might only see by living on a forum like this - I can't fault them for incorrectly guessing which one takes precedence.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?' West Houston Mike |
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1. Fighting is not defined as a technical foul. It is defined as a flagrant act that can occur when the ball is live or dead. Read rule 4 for reference. 2. Flagrant fouls can be either personal or technical. Again, see rule 4. 3. The penalties are the same whether contact occurs or not. Two shots and the ball for the offended team. The only difference is where the ball will be put in play and who shoots the free throw. I assume the slight difference you are referring to is the fact that a player can be ejected by getting two technical fouls, but this has no bearing in this instance, because the player is going to be ejected immediately for the flagrant foul. |
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And the T takes precedence (according to more than one clinic, including one just 2 nights ago where this very question came up). Think about it. A) Dude clocks #34 who can't shoot a free throw to save his life ... or B) Dude tried to hit him and misses. Who, realistically, thinks the rulesmakers want the penalty for A (34 shoots) to be LESS THAN the penalty for B (anyone shoots)?
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?' West Houston Mike |
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Under Rule 10-3-8 say: "Be charged with fighting."
That is under the Player Technical section. Not sure how you would not call a fight to not be a technical. Now if you do not consider this a fight, then it would be just a flagrant act. But I cannot see not calling a punch a fight by definition. Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael Mick Chambers (1947-2010) |
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3. Who shoots the FTs is a distinct difference. With the T, anyone on the team shoots. With a personal, the offended player shoots. That could be a big difference. The throwin spot will likely be less of an issue as the location for the T throwin may or may not be an improvement in the location and, if I were a coach, I'd rather have 2 FTs by my best FT shooter with a mid-court throwin vs. 2 FTs by my worst FT shooter with a throwin under the basket. |
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It is the situation where the swinger makes contact that is currently being debated.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?' West Houston Mike |
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I don't know what the debate is. The language is clear. Fighting is a Flagrant T. Contact or not is irrelevant. It's not a discussion as far as I am concerned. The books are clear with this act, even though the general contact v non-contact, in general may be somewhat ambiguous, in this case it's not.
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in OS I trust |
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8.6.3 SITUATION A: A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul. While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously. RULING: Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double *personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-19-8; 6-4-3f; 7-5-3b; 4-36; 10-3-8; 10 Penalty 1c, 8a(1)) |
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Also, this case play is about how to resume play after a false double foul, not about the specifics of what the foul in the case is.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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