Debate

[foxwhistler]

Our games also included a bit of excitement when A2, straddling the division line, catches a pass from A1, who was dribbling, picked up his backcourt foot and placed it back down in the backcourt. I thought that to be legal. Any thoughts?

Also, We had A5 catch an inbounds pass with his first foot landed in the frontcourt and then his second foot landed in the backcourt. Legal? I let play continue, but B's coach was furious.

Thanks for your thoughts--and rules citings.
Tom

[som44]

1) when he lifted his backcourt foot he established frontcourt position--when he put foot back down in backcourt--violation case book 4.4.1

2) initial catch legal9.9 art 3-then it depends what he does from that point forward (see above)

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by foxwhistler
Our games also included a bit of excitement when A2, straddling the division line, catches a pass from A1, who was dribbling, picked up his backcourt foot and placed it back down in the backcourt. I thought that to be legal. Any thoughts?

I don't quite follow your sentence. Who was dribbling? A1 or A2?

I'm guessing you mean A2 since it doesn't matter what A1 was doing before the pass.

So, if I've got your case right. A1 passes the ball to a A2 who is straddling the division line. Then A2 starts a dribble. Then A2 lifts the backcourt foot and returns it to the backcourt.

Legal.

A2, being a dribbler, remains in the backcourt until all three points (the ball and both feet) touch in the FC with no intervening backcourt touches. So, if A2 was dribbling the ball in the backcourt, and then moved the backcourt foot to the frontcourt, he could still keep dribbling the ball in the backcourt and could even return entirely to the backcourt. He could also put one foot in the backcourt, then move the dribble to the frontcourt...legally.

Technically, a player could, during a dribble in the backcourt, legally continue to dribble and hop on one foot all the way to the frontcourt baseline and back into the backcourt. (as long as 10 seconds didn't expire).

Originally posted by foxwhistler

Also, We had A5 catch an inbounds pass with his first foot landed in the frontcourt and then his second foot landed in the backcourt. Legal? I let play continue, but B's coach was furious.

Legal. Normal landing allow. If A5 caught the ball and stood there like a stork for 10 seconds then put the second foot down, it would be a violation.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Nov 3rd, 2003 at 05:40 PM]

[Kelvin green]

Originally posted by foxwhistler
Our games also included a bit of excitement when A2, straddling the division line, catches a pass from A1, who was dribbling, picked up his backcourt foot and placed it back down in the backcourt. I thought that to be legal. Any thoughts?

Also, We had A5 catch an inbounds pass with his first foot landed in the frontcourt and then his second foot landed in the backcourt. Legal? I let play continue, but B's coach was furious.

1) Walk thru this--- A2 is straddling the division line catches a pass.. Team control right? Now once he picks up his backfoot ball has front court status ...Once he puts his backfoot back down in back court he now is Backcourt... Blow it over and back and go the other way...

2) Nice scenario. Ther is an exception to juping from front court catching the ball and landing backcourt. Obviously you have a problem with the first foot hitting front then a second one in back ( obviouly not simultaneously) I dont have my rule book or case book out here,[ but if I am wrong I will take the heat.. a whole lot better from you guys than the Iraqi's with mortars... well maybe...] but I would call it under the same reasoning as above...

Watch for incoming rounds on that!

[stripes]

Hi Kelvin.

Stay safe.

I'm now in the valley of the sun.

Talk to you sometime.

[Kelvin green]

Stripes--
You moved down there? or just temporary?

[oc]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
[
A2, being a dribbler, remains in the backcourt until all three points (the ball and both feet) touch in the FC with no intervening backcourt touches. So, if A2 was dribbling the ball in the backcourt, and then moved the backcourt foot to the frontcourt, he could still keep dribbling the ball in the backcourt and could even return entirely to the backcourt. He could also put one foot in the backcourt, then move the dribble to the frontcourt...legally.

Technically, a player could, during a dribble in the backcourt, legally continue to dribble and hop on one foot all the way to the frontcourt baseline and back into the backcourt. (as long as 10 seconds didn't expire).

[Edited by Camron Rust on Nov 3rd, 2003 at 05:40 PM] [/B]

-I think you are wrong here. Once the foot in the backcourt is picked up the player/ball has frontcourt status. The player then can not put the foot back down in the backcourt. Even if the player is dribbling at the time.

[caref]

The dribble plays an important part here. If I am staddling the mid-court line and not dribbling and then pick up my back foot I now have front court status. If I am dribbling the ball in the backcourt I am still in the backcourt regardless of where my feet are. I can bring both feet back into the backcourt in that situation. If I am straddling and dribbling in the front court I still have backcourt status until I lift the leg that is in the backcourt. If I don't and can bringthe other leg back and also the ball as long as I am dribbling.

[Mike Burns]

Originally posted by oc

-I think you are wrong here. Once the foot in the backcourt is picked up the player/ball has frontcourt status. The player then can not put the foot back down in the backcourt. Even if the player is dribbling at the time.
[/B]

Please cite rule or case book to back up your reply.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by oc
]-I think you are wrong here. Once the foot in the backcourt is picked up the player/ball has frontcourt status. The player then can not put the foot back down in the backcourt. Even if the player is dribbling at the time.

No, he's correct. The dribbler is not in the FC until both feet and the ball are in the FC.

[oc]

Originally posted by Mike Burns

Please cite rule or case book to back up your reply.
[/B]

I don't have new books but I thank you for forcing me to find my old ones. If you check rule 4-4-6 I think it says pretty clearly that I am...

wrong. DOH!

[caref]

both feet and the ball must be over. The ball can still be in the backcourt and you have backcourt status even if both feet are in the frontcourt. Has been the rule for several years now. The key is you must be dribbling in the backcourt. Once the ball is picked up and both feet are in the frontcourt you are then in the front court.

I am studying the manuel and casebook tonight. Rule book is in the car and it is too cold to go out and get it. No direct reference in the casebook this year.

[canuckrefguy]

NCAA Rules, 2003/04
Section 28, Article 3

(c) During a dribble from back court to front court, the ball shall be in the front court when both feet of the dribbler and the ball touch the playing court entirely in the front court.

(Keeping in mind that NFHS rule is, I believe, almost identical)

Dribbling the ball while straddling the midcourt line is different than holding the ball while straddling the midcourt line. In the latter, once you lift your back court foot, you have front court status. NOT SO when you are dribbling.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Technically, a player could, during a dribble in the backcourt, legally continue to dribble and hop on one foot all the way to the frontcourt baseline and back into the backcourt. (as long as 10 seconds didn't expire).

Legal or not, I'd like to see it!! And I'd like to see you explain that the player at the endline has now violated the 10-second count. That would be worth paying a lot of money for!

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Technically, a player could, during a dribble in the backcourt, legally continue to dribble and hop on one foot all the way to the frontcourt baseline and back into the backcourt. (as long as 10 seconds didn't expire).

This is the funniest senario I have ever heard!

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Legal. Normal landing allow. If A5 caught the ball and stood there like a stork for 10 seconds then put the second foot down, it would be a violation.)

Just to clarify, this is a backcourt violation because the player did not make a normal landing, so the exception does not apply. It is not a 10 second violation.