3 Seconds

[OrStBballRef]

Originally Posted by dee33

Just a general question I had a game last night and the coach was barking about 3 seconds all freaking night to whoever was in the lead and there was no adavantage disadvantage going on because the ball was passed around the top of the key majority of the game. He called a timeout barked some more why arent yall calling this then begins the rant of three seconds is 1,2,3 toot should be a whistle. Mind you the other coach was coaching didnt have a care in the world about the calls. How would you guys have handled this situation?

"Coach, every time I hear 3 in the key I restart my count..."
"Coach if you're calling that then I can't..."

Both of these (for me) usually quiets the coach down if he knows what he's doing....

Now with regards to actually 3 in the key if it's there you may need to call it, but for me it's towards the bottom of the list of things I'm looking for....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

JetMetFan: I slightly disagree. Please cite something, in writing, that states that advantage/disadvantage does not apply to violations. I will agree that, in almost all occasions, advantage/disadvantage applies to fouls, but I would not agree that advantage/disadvantage only applies to fouls.

Poll on applying advantage/disadvantage to violations (Ignore the poll. I hate polls.)

In the immortal words of the infamous Jurassic Referee: "There are certain violations that I think that even the FED rulesmakers would probably agree, if you twisted their arms, that some discretion (read: advantage/disadvantage) is needed to make an appropriate call. Examples might be 3-seconds and the 10-second count on a free-throw shooter.

You won't find "advantage/disadvantage" in the rules for fouls, either. What you will find, however, is that the foul rule indicates there needs to be some sort of obstructing, impeding, displacement, etc., in order to be considered anything but incidental (legal) contact. No such provision exists in the definitions of "violations."

As Camron notes, though, you can always use the "intent and purpose" stuff.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If instead of advantage/disadvantage you apply intent and purpose and you have a way to not call 3 seconds just because a player happens to be in the lane for 3 seconds.

Originally Posted by Adam

You can always use the "intent and purpose" stuff.

THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES

The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a
balance of play; to provide equal opportunity between the offense and the
defense; to provide equal opportunity between the small player and tall player; to
provide reasonable safety and protection; to create an atmosphere of sporting
behavior and fair play; and to emphasize cleverness and skill without unduly
limiting freedom of action of individual or team play on either offense or defense.
Therefore, it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Now, as soon as they clearly DO gain an advantage, game over.

Wow, you're strict!! Advantage in the lane results in a forfeit!!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If instead of advantage/disadvantage you apply intent and purpose and you have a way to not call 3 seconds just because a player happens to be in the lane for 3 seconds.

When I did my floor training as a brand new official, we reffed 4th and 5th grade game or something like that. During one of my breaks, my observer and I had this conversation:

Him: "What's the purpose of the 3-second rule?"

Me: [deer in headlights. totally overwhelmed.] Confused silence. . .

Him: "It's to keep the big man from camping out under the basket and getting easy scores, right?"

Me: Nodding. . .

Him: "Do you see any big men out there?"

[Scrapper1]

From the OfficialForum.com archives (originally aired 4/2/02 -- I love the search function!):

You should count 3-seconds like this:

One.

Man, am I hungry. I could go for a nice slice right now. Or maybe Slider will send me a Krispy Kreme. Mmmmmmm. Doughnuts. Man, that Homer Simpson cracks me up. I wonder what it's really like to work in a nuclear power plant. . .

Two.

Is that cheerleader looking at me? I think she's looking at me!! Nope. Darn, she's looking at the point guard camped in the lane. Camped in the lane? Oh, yeah. . . Where was I?

Two-and-a-half.

"Blue. Clear the lane!"

Yawn. Scratch. Adjust pants.

"Blue! Get outta there!"

WWMTDSD? (What would Mark T. DeNucci, Sr do?)

Doggone it!!

Three!! TWEET!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by dee33

He called a timeout barked some more why aren't yall calling this then begins the rant of three seconds is 1,2,3 toot should be a whistle. How would you guys have handled this situation?

dee33:

If he had ranted to me: "1, 2, 3, toot!" during a TO to me, then we would have been shooting TF free throws after the TO was over, and it would not the Coach's team that would be shooting the free throws.

MTD, Sr.

[dee33]

The players would come in I say paint they step out game had a great flow was very consistent but this coach was ranting and they had a great lead HE WANTED A 1,2,3 three seconds come on if it were action in the paint ok but it was very minimal

[dee33]

You guys nailed it I never say a specific number I just say paint they step out why because I had said numbers before and a coach had mentioned to me well why did you tell 5 to get out the paint but you couldnt tell 22 to watch his hands so I just keep it simple paint, hands etcand they oblige they know who you're refferring to. As far as the coach this was my response to him and I'm sure alot will be against this but I told him this after the timeout rant I said coach you know everytime I have my count going and you start with your 3 seconds rant I lose count and have to start over again yup he was pissed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dee33

The players would come in I say paint they step out game had a great flow was very consistent but this coach was ranting and they had a great lead HE WANTED A 1,2,3 three seconds come on if it were action in the paint ok but it was very minimal

from what u writ here it seems as you did it right I wouldnt change the way you called it but i also wouldnt let the coach rant all night that should have been addressed quickly at the latest he gets a T during that timeout have you talked to your assigner to see how he wants it called and how he thinks you should have addressed the coaches behavior i never use the "i start my count over" approach because it is only likely to make the problem worse

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by dee33

The players would come in I say paint they step out game had a great flow was very consistent but this coach was ranting and they had a great lead HE WANTED A 1,2,3 three seconds come on if it were action in the paint ok but it was very minimal

Originally Posted by dee33

You guys nailed it I never say a specific number I just say paint they step out why because I had said numbers before and a coach had mentioned to me well why did you tell 5 to get out the paint but you couldnt tell 22 to watch his hands so I just keep it simple paint, hands etcand they oblige they know who you're refferring to. As far as the coach this was my response to him and I'm sure alot will be against this but I told him this after the timeout rant I said coach you know everytime I have my count going and you start with your 3 seconds rant I lose count and have to start over again yup he was pissed.

Originally Posted by Adam

from what u writ here it seems as you did it right I wouldnt change the way you called it but i also wouldnt let the coach rant all night that should have been addressed quickly at the latest he gets a T during that timeout have you talked to your assigner to see how he wants it called and how he thinks you should have addressed the coaches behavior i never use the "i start my count over" approach because it is only likely to make the problem worse

i feel like this is some sort of competition in which we see who can make the longest sentence without some sort of punctuation i mean does anyone else see that i didnt know where one thought ended and the next begun i just kept saying to myself holy cow shouldnt we be using periods or commas every now and again

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by frezer11

i feel like this is some sort of competition in which we see who can make the longest sentence without some sort of punctuation i mean does anyone else see that i didnt know where one thought ended and the next begun i just kept saying to myself holy cow shouldnt we be using periods or commas every now and again

Punctuation! We don't need no stinking punctuation.

Originally Posted by Adam

from what u writ here it seems as you did it right I wouldnt change the way you called it but i also wouldnt let the coach rant all night that should have been addressed quickly at the latest he gets a T during that timeout have you talked to your assigner to see how he wants it called and how he thinks you should have addressed the coaches behavior i never use the "i start my count over" approach because it is only likely to make the problem worse

I don't think a moderator should be mocking the grammar or writing style of another poster.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I don't think a moderator should be mocking the grammar or writing style of another poster.

Frankly, I considered simply reminding him that punctuation would help. I tried a different tactic. My intent wasn't mockery, it was to show him how hard it is to read when someone writes like that.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I don't think a moderator should be mocking the grammar or writing style of another poster.

We'll take him out behind the woodshed.