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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 05:39pm
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This didn't happen to me but was brought up in the locker room.

.3 second left in game Team A has ball OOB in front court. They are down by 1 point. A1 throws the ball toward the basket. Player B1 jumps up deflects the ball. The ball goes off the backboard, time expires, then the ball goes in the basket.

Do you count the basket?
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 05:51pm
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No. It was not a try because A1 had the ball during a throwin so the ball becomes dead at the horn. We had a similar discussion on a slightly different play.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 05:55pm
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Read this thread

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24210
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 07:46pm
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no basket

it is not considered a try, but a defensive tip. A try can go in after time expires and horn sounds (as long as it is released before the clock expires) and be good, defensive tips cannot.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 07:54pm
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Re: no basket

Quote:
Originally posted by lmeadski
it is not considered a try, but a defensive tip. A try can go in after time expires and horn sounds (as long as it is released before the clock expires) and be good, defensive tips cannot.
That is true, but it would probably be good to be clear that if a try is released before the horn, is then tipped by the defense and goes in, it is still a try and the basket counts. That is different that the throw-in case.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 07:56pm
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thank you

for adding that.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 07:57pm
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You cannot call 3 seconds at that point of the game.

Sorry, wrong post.

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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 08:00pm
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Question re: .3 seconds, cont'd.

I was hoping someone could provide some quoted rule or case book material that clarifies the correctness of awarding no points on the ".3 seconds remaining-ball passed inbounds-tipped by B1 prior to the horn sounding" situation. I'm still unconvinced of the correctness of this ruling, and am still inclined to award 2 points to A. All I can come up with is the following:

2005-06 NFHS Rule 5.1.1 "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through."

NFHS 2004-05 Case 5.2.1-D "...A1 makes a throw-in from out of bounds...The throw-in pass is deflected at A's free throw line by B1 and then goes directly through A's basket. Ruling: Score two points for Team A. The throw-in ended when the ball was touched by an inbounds player and the live ball subsequently passed through the basket. The fact that it was not a try or tap for goal does not affect the scoring of two points."

So I gather that the consensus here is that the ball is dead, despite being last touched legally by a player with inbounds status before the horn sounded. I would just like to read something that clarifies that. - I did read the other listed thread http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24210, but it didn't do the trick for me.

The majority of what was discussed was that, since there was a defensive tip, that the ball was dead on the horn. But would we wave off a successful try that continues through the basket that was partially blocked just after its release by the shooter? ( - Try and contact prior to the horn sounding) Or, more relevant than that, would we wave off an "alley-oop" PASS (clearly a pass - released "chest pass" style by the passer) that is deflected by a B1, who is fronting A1, who the ball is intended for - both of whom are within TWO feet of the basket as they jump, followed by the ball entering the basket as before (all contact prior to the horn sounding)?

The only thing I can find that somewhat pertains to this is:

NFHS 2004-05 Case 6.7.6-A "A1 passes the ball to A2. However, A2 is not looking. The ball strikes A2 on the back of the head, and then goes directly above the basket of Team A...time expires and subsequently [the ball] enters the basket. Ruling: No goal. The ball rebounding from A2's head is not considered a try or a tap. A tap is made with the hand(s)....In this situation, the ball became dead immediately when time expired."

In the discussed instance, however, the ball WAS touched by a hand.

I guess what I'm looking for is rule or case material stating that a defensive deflection of anything other than a try or tap for goal would cause the ball to become dead if time subsequently expires.

Respectfully submitted,

[Edited by HawkeyeCubP on Jan 19th, 2006 at 08:15 PM]
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 08:14pm
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Re: re: .3 seconds, cont'd.

Quote:
Originally posted by HawkeyeCubP
I was hoping someone could provide some quoted rule or case book material that clarifies the correctness of awarding no points on the ".3 seconds remaining-ball passed inbounds-tipped by B1 prior to the horn sounding" situation. I'm still unconvinced of the correctness of this ruling, and am still inclined to award 2 points to A. All I can come up with is the following:

2005-06 NFHS Rule 5.1.1 "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through."

NFHS 2004-05 Case 5.2.1-D "...A1 makes a throw-in from out of bounds...The throw-in pass is deflected at A's free throw line by B1 and then goes directly through A's basket. Ruling: Score two points for Team A. The throw-in ended when the ball was touched by an inbounds player and the live ball subsequently passed through the basket. The fact that it was not a try or tap for goal does not affect the scoring of two points."

So I gather that the consensus here is that the ball is dead, despite being last touched legally by a player with inbounds status before the horn sounded. I would just like to read something that clarifies that. - I did read the other listed thread http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24210, but it didn't do the trick for me.

The majority of what was discussed was that, since there was a defensive tip, that the ball was dead on the horn. But would we wave off a successful try that continues through the basket that was partially blocked just after its release by the shooter? ( - Try and contact prior to the horn sounding) Or, more relevant than that, would we wave off an "alley-oop" PASS (clearly a pass - released "chest pass" style by the passer) that is deflected by a B1, who is fronting A1, who the ball is intended for - both of whom are within TWO feet of the basket as they jump, followed by the ball entering the basket as before (all contact prior to the horn sounding)?

The only thing I can find that somewhat pertains to this is:

NFHS 2004-05 Case 6.7.6-A "A1 passes the ball to A2. However, A2 is not looking. The ball strikes A2 on the back of the head, and then goes directly above the basket of Team A...time expires and subsequently [the ball] enters the basket. Ruling: No goal. The ball rebounding from A2's head is not considered a try or a tap. A tap is made with the hand(s)....In this situation, the ball became dead immediately when time expired."

In the discussed instance, however, the ball WAS touched by a hand.

I guess what I'm looking for is rule or case material stating that a defensive deflection of anything other than a try or tap for goal would cause the ball to become dead if time subsequently expires.

You're looking for the wrong thing. it is'nt the deflection that causes the ball to become dead. It is the horn that makes the ball become dead. I don't have my rulebook with me, but basically, as soon as the horn sounds, the ball is dead where it is, UNLESS IT IS IN THE AIR FOR A TAP OR TRY, in which case it does not become dead until such time as the goal is scored or misses.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 10:57pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by smoref
This didn't happen to me but was brought up in the locker room.

.3 second left in game Team A has ball OOB in front court. They are down by 1 point. A1 throws the ball toward the basket. Player B1 jumps up deflects the ball. The ball goes off the backboard, time expires, then the ball goes in the basket.

Do you count the basket?
Basket is good!!!!

I am going to take you through why. Look at casebook 5.2.1 Sit (D) this covers throwin after a "T".

The situation in casebook refers you to rule 4-41-4. However, you must also take a look at art..6 which will refer you to 5-2-5 which covers .3 second or less.

Bottom line basket is good!!!!

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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 11:07pm
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Re: Re: re: .3 seconds, cont'd.

Quote:
Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by HawkeyeCubP
I was hoping someone could provide some quoted rule or case book material that clarifies the correctness of awarding no points on the ".3 seconds remaining-ball passed inbounds-tipped by B1 prior to the horn sounding" situation. I'm still unconvinced of the correctness of this ruling, and am still inclined to award 2 points to A. All I can come up with is the following:

2005-06 NFHS Rule 5.1.1 "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through."

NFHS 2004-05 Case 5.2.1-D "...A1 makes a throw-in from out of bounds...The throw-in pass is deflected at A's free throw line by B1 and then goes directly through A's basket. Ruling: Score two points for Team A. The throw-in ended when the ball was touched by an inbounds player and the live ball subsequently passed through the basket. The fact that it was not a try or tap for goal does not affect the scoring of two points."

So I gather that the consensus here is that the ball is dead, despite being last touched legally by a player with inbounds status before the horn sounded. I would just like to read something that clarifies that. - I did read the other listed thread http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24210, but it didn't do the trick for me.

The majority of what was discussed was that, since there was a defensive tip, that the ball was dead on the horn. But would we wave off a successful try that continues through the basket that was partially blocked just after its release by the shooter? ( - Try and contact prior to the horn sounding) Or, more relevant than that, would we wave off an "alley-oop" PASS (clearly a pass - released "chest pass" style by the passer) that is deflected by a B1, who is fronting A1, who the ball is intended for - both of whom are within TWO feet of the basket as they jump, followed by the ball entering the basket as before (all contact prior to the horn sounding)?

The only thing I can find that somewhat pertains to this is:

NFHS 2004-05 Case 6.7.6-A "A1 passes the ball to A2. However, A2 is not looking. The ball strikes A2 on the back of the head, and then goes directly above the basket of Team A...time expires and subsequently [the ball] enters the basket. Ruling: No goal. The ball rebounding from A2's head is not considered a try or a tap. A tap is made with the hand(s)....In this situation, the ball became dead immediately when time expired."

In the discussed instance, however, the ball WAS touched by a hand.

I guess what I'm looking for is rule or case material stating that a defensive deflection of anything other than a try or tap for goal would cause the ball to become dead if time subsequently expires.

You're looking for the wrong thing. it is'nt the deflection that causes the ball to become dead. It is the horn that makes the ball become dead. I don't have my rulebook with me, but basically, as soon as the horn sounds, the ball is dead where it is, UNLESS IT IS IN THE AIR FOR A TAP OR TRY, in which case it does not become dead until such time as the goal is scored or misses.
How could that be? The horn does not cause the to become dead just because it sounded. The ending of the action does.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 11:13pm
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Sounds like Referee magazine, Feb 2006 CasePlay last Second Tap, page 20.

PS: They say NO Basket. Since a tap attempt must be made at the players correct basket to be a legitimate "try".

A legitimate try does not end if in flight at the horn, but this is NOT a ligitimate attempt and time expired in your scenario - no basket.


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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 11:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
Quote:
Originally posted by smoref
This didn't happen to me but was brought up in the locker room.

.3 second left in game Team A has ball OOB in front court. They are down by 1 point. A1 throws the ball toward the basket. Player B1 jumps up deflects the ball. The ball goes off the backboard, time expires, then the ball goes in the basket.

Do you count the basket?
Basket is good!!!!

I am going to take you through why. Look at casebook 5.2.1 Sit (D) this covers throwin after a "T".

The situation in casebook refers you to rule 4-41-4. However, you must also take a look at art..6 which will refer you to 5-2-5 which covers .3 second or less.

Bottom line basket is good!!!!

Better try the top line then. A basket only counts if the ball is live when it passes throught the basket. The ball is dead when the horn sounds unless it is in the air on a try/tap. A try or tap can only occur by a team attempting to put the ball in their own basket.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 11:34pm
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I will help out a little here.

Read 6-7-6. Then it says see exception, look at the exception.

"The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor"

Definition of try 4-40-2.

That about covers it.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2006, 11:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
Quote:
Originally posted by smoref
This didn't happen to me but was brought up in the locker room.

.3 second left in game Team A has ball OOB in front court. They are down by 1 point. A1 throws the ball toward the basket. Player B1 jumps up deflects the ball. The ball goes off the backboard, time expires, then the ball goes in the basket.

Do you count the basket?
Basket is good!!!!

I am going to take you through why. Look at casebook 5.2.1 Sit (D) this covers throwin after a "T".

The situation in casebook refers you to rule 4-41-4. However, you must also take a look at art..6 which will refer you to 5-2-5 which covers .3 second or less.

Bottom line basket is good!!!!

Better try the top line then. A basket only counts if the ball is live when it passes throught the basket. The ball is dead when the horn sounds unless it is in the air on a try/tap. A try or tap can only occur by a team attempting to put the ball in their own basket.
Ok, I am wrong. It is not a legitimate try or tap.

No Basket!!!!!!
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