Questioning Partner's Call

[Afrosheen]

I had a play where my partner called a backcourt violation on inbounds where I thought the player catching the ball inbounds did not establish team control in the front court before going into the backcourt. My partner was the trail official, so I went up to him and asked him whether the player established team control in the front court. He replied by saying don't make this awkward and stop questioning my call. After the quarter I told him I was not intending to make this personal, I just wanted to make sure we had the call right. He then said that how could I have seen it better as Lead when he was on top of it as Trail. Granted he is still a fairly new official, but he acts very defensively and took this personally.

A couple of days later, I get an email with a veiled question of "what do you think of the first paragraph on page 307 in the Rules by Topic?" I returned, "what about it?"

He then writes: "Could you compare and contrast our situation with another of your choice to help me better understand why what happened Saturday was as you put normal of partners to do?"


The rule he is referencing is:

"No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties."

Now I'm wondering how to address this. I try to instill the value of working as a crew to get the call right. But now I'm not sure how to approach this situation and any further ones where I'm wanting to confer with my partner on a call.

I'm wondering how you guys apply this rule in your games?

[Matt S.]

What kind of game (level) were you working?

My advice: let it go, and ask your assignor not to pair you with him again.

My guess is that your partner called what he saw--let him live or die with the call.

[Afrosheen]

I tried to let it go during the game by telling him that my intentions were not personal.

Additionally, I'm the assignor for the club level games here in this region. I want to know the most tactful way of approaching this.

[BigT]

New officials are going to miss calls for 1-30 years. Their self esteem is going to be on shaky ground for a long time. I do not think it is wise to question a decision from that far away for several reason. It is not a game changer or a HS game where this could decide the game in the last 30 seconds. Only time I extend my area is on a blatant everyone in the gym knows you missed an elbow to the face kind of call. A violation is not one of those we have to get or extend my area.

You clearly embarrassed a rookie and made him feel bad. We should be aware enough to apologize and move on right there and then. I wouldnt have ever brought it up again because clearly he has zero interest in help from you.

Here is how I would have brought it up later. Steve it took me forever to memorize all the strange rules about backcourt. I have read articles with 1k words trying to help explain every possible scenario. I love to talk about these with referees and just wanted to ask some questions to help make sure I make good back court violation calls. Can I ask what you saw? Was his feet were when he received the ball. That is the trick to helping make great back court calls.

If he is unsure what he saw then you know he missed it and thats the life of a new ref. If he saw it and applied the rules incorrectly you say. Thats tricky. Mind if I send some case book references after I study it tonight?

As for how to respond to him now. I am sorry. My point was not to embarass you. I should have discussed it with you later. It is not a game changing play and I dont need to come over to you for it. You are new and I was trying to help and over stepped my bounds. It will not happen again.

We have all done something like this. You might re-evaluate when you are going to help a rookie. He might never get better because he gets so defensive.

I hope none of this sounds like I am harping on you. Just my two cents.

Whomever told me to read Verbal Judo. Thanks again. Really helped my life and my refereeing and I strongly suggest it to every referee, heck every person out there to help every part of their life and communication with others.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by BigT

New officials are going to miss calls for 1-30 years. Their self esteem is going to be on shaky ground for a long time.

[... snip ...]

You clearly embarrassed a rookie and made him feel bad.

Having started my second season, I try to tell partners in the pregame that if they see something obvious I miss, call it if necessary and then let's discuss it at halftime or post-game (so I can turn it into a learning experience).

[Adam]

I never question the calling official on this play if I "think" or "it looks like" the player didn't establish control. If there's even a .01% chance I saw it wrong, I'm not making any approach.

Wanting to "get the calls" right leads, eventually, to an official calling a 5 second throw in violation from 40 feet away because you don't think your partner is counting fast enough. Now, I have approached partners on BC calls in the past, but on both, the player gaining control didn't do so until he/she got to 30 feet into the BC. One was a pass out of the paint that was tipped by B in the lane and retrieved by A well into the BC. The other was a FC end line throw in that was tipped by A in the FC but retrieved by A almost at the other endline. On the first, I just let the T know the pass was tipped, he reversed his own call. On the second, I was working with a rookie and went up to see what she had seen. When she told me she saw it just as I did, I let her know the rule and we moved on correctly.

That said, if he still has a cob up his ass about the situation, I'd just write him off. Apologize (high road and all that) and move on. Block him if you want (I probably would) if he's that much of a dick about it.

[Adam]

Now, if you think he's legitimately asking how you interpret that rule, I would just tell him that providing information is not the same as overruling a partner.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Adam

Now, if you think he's legitimately asking how you interpret that rule, I would just tell him that providing information is not the same as overruling a partner.

That is what I was going to say. Working to make sure we get calls right from a "not blowing it because we don't know the rules" standpoint is different than saying "Hey you shouldn't have called that" from 40 feet away. Change your own call with more information on a rule and me changing your call for you, they are two different things.

[The_Rookie]

That said, if he still has a cob up his ass about the situation, I'd just write him off. Apologize (high road and all that) and move on. Block him if you want (I probably would) if he's that much of a dick about it.[/QUOTE]

+1..Sadly like in life itself we run across partners who are dead heads with bad attitudes

[rockyroad]

Lots of good advice. My addition would be to calmly point out to him that you were not trying to overrule him at the time, and would never do that. You were simply bringing information to him. How he chooses to respond to that communication is up to him. My communication to him would be (name is made-up)...

"Mike, I was not trying to overrule you. If it came across that way, then I am sorry. I was just trying to bring you some information I thought was important at the time. Won't happen again."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

I had a play where my partner called a backcourt violation on inbounds where I thought the player catching the ball inbounds did not establish team control in the front court before going into the backcourt.

You could have given your partner "the look" telling him that you had some information, but I would not have gone up to him.

Given that you did, and that you are the assigner, my advice would be to apologize for it.

that's not to excuse his later actions.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

I had a play where my partner called a backcourt violation on inbounds where I thought the player catching the ball inbounds did not establish team player control in the front court before going into the backcourt....?

I only bring information that is definitive. If you only "thought" you saw it one way then, IMO, you should wait until after the game (or halftime) and ask your partner what he had on that play.

[Afrosheen]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I only bring information that is definitive. If you only "thought" you saw it one way then, IMO, you should wait until after the game (or halftime) and ask your partner what he had on that play.

I understand where you're coming from and I did not give the whole story as the coach saw it too and he became infuriated at the call. So my willingness to approach my partner was an attempt to assuage the situation and I gave my partner an out by asking him whether the player gained possession with one hand before going into the backcourt where he caught it with two hands. edit: I did not overrule him.

Unfortunately, I'm now having to address the fallout of an official who believes that the partner has no right to confer with his partner about his call. And now that I have reviewed the rulebook, none of the referee duties actually list a judgment on the play which means that it's not one of the things that cannot be questioned as this official believes it to be.

But again, I'm for a tactful response where I'm not being condescending but at the same time not willing to compromise on the principle that as a crew our main goal is to help each other out to get the call right.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

I understand where you're coming from and I did not give the whole story as the coach saw it too and he became infuriated at the call. So my willingness to approach my partner was an attempt to assuage the situation and I gave my partner an out by asking him whether the player gained possession with one hand before going into the backcourt where he caught it with two hands. edit: I did not overrule him.

...

I know I'm doing the old "hindsight-20/20" thing here, but probably a good opportunity for that young official to learn how to talk to coaches. Next time you have some sort of similar situation, you could go up to the youngun' and tell him to quickly explain to the coach what he has, "Coach, I had player control in the front court", then have him move out. Then if the coach persists on commenting, you can chime in with "Coach, my partner told what he had, now we need to move on."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

I understand where you're coming from and I did not give the whole story as the coach saw it too and he became infuriated at the call.

So your partner should have explained it to the coach and / or chosen to come to you for help. As I said before you can show body language / "the look" to try to get your partner to come to you.

Or, if you have to go to where he is to administer the throw-in, just ask your partner "everything okay?" or something to try to get him to open up for an explanation.

And, yes, it's tough to figure out what to do because every situation is a little different.