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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
If you're going to let him get away with this, you could just as easily say it was still a try.
Wow, regardless of one's opinion on whether this is a pass or dribble, calling it a try is not 'just as easy.'
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:00am
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Wow, regardless of one's opinion on whether this is a pass or dribble, calling it a try is not 'just as easy.'
That was an extreme way to word it, but the bottom line is the same.

It's not going in the basket. It's not a try. If it's dropped straight to the floor, it's also not going "to another player", so it's not a pass.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
That was an extreme way to word it, but the bottom line is the same.

It's not going in the basket. It's not a try. If it's dropped straight to the floor, it's also not going "to another player", so it's not a pass.
And it wasn't pushed, batted, or thrown, so it's not a dribble.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:05am
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
And it wasn't pushed, batted, or thrown, so it's not a dribble.
throw: propel (something) with force through the air by a movement of the arm and hand


The release is the movement by the arm/hand. The force is supplied by gravity.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
In this case, it is both. His intent is to avoid a traveling violation. He knows he can't return to the floor holding the ball, so he drops it straight to the floor. I would give the player a benefit of any small doubt, but he must at least look for a teammate and make some effort to push the ball in that direction, as opposed to dropping it straight to the floor.

If you're going to let him get away with this, you could just as easily say it was still a try.
This statement makes no sense at all. His intent is to avoid a travelling violation so he drops the ball, which is a travelling violation. If his intent is to avoid a travelling violation then he drops the ball in hopes that a teammate will come retrieve it.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 10:29am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
This statement makes no sense at all. His intent is to avoid a travelling violation so he drops the ball, which is a travelling violation. If his intent is to avoid a travelling violation then he drops the ball in hopes that a teammate will come retrieve it.
Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 01:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.
You said he dropped it to avoid a travelling violation, which means he is passing the ball.

You didn't say he pushed, batted, or threw the ball to the ground.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Hope that a teammate will retrieve does not, for me, define a pass.

You said it yourself. He dropped the ball. This is a travelling violation.
I don't care how you twist your way into it, dropping does not equal throwing, pushing, or batting.

I have never seen a player drop the ball and not obviously expect his teammate to come get it. The fact is, there is no way to know what he's trying to do when he drops it. So, I'm going to assume it's a pass until something happens to tell me otherwise (such as him being the first to touch it after he releases the ball).
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 02:52pm
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Allowing gravity to force the ball down is the opposite of forcing it down one's self. This is NOT a dribble. Period.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I don't care how you twist your way into it, dropping does not equal throwing, pushing, or batting.

I have never seen a player drop the ball and not obviously expect his teammate to come get it. The fact is, there is no way to know what he's trying to do when he drops it. So, I'm going to assume it's a pass until something happens to tell me otherwise (such as him being the first to touch it after he releases the ball).
In fact, the act is usually followed by A1 trying to "box out" defenders from getting the ball.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
And it wasn't pushed, batted, or thrown, so it's not a dribble.
"Drop" is just a very weak throw/push.
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 03:54pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Allowing gravity to force the ball down is the opposite of forcing it down one's self. This is NOT a dribble. Period.
So, let me get this straight.

I can hold the ball, drop it. Catch it after the bounce. Drop it again. Catch it again. Drop it again. Catch it again. And, since dropping it is not a dribble, it is not a dribble. Wow....this could be a very useful tactic!!!
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Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:32pm
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Fumble,. Fumble, Fumble ???

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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I can hold the ball, drop it. Catch it after the bounce. Drop it again. Catch it again. Drop it again. Catch it again. And, since dropping it is not a dribble, it is not a dribble.
Good point, great extreme example, I love pushing the limits of various rules, but I will still wait to see what happens next, and will only call the violation if he is the first to touch.

Now? Is a drop the same as a fumble? Can we read minds, and determine intent?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 04:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
So, let me get this straight.

I can hold the ball, drop it. Catch it after the bounce. Drop it again. Catch it again. Drop it again. Catch it again. And, since dropping it is not a dribble, it is not a dribble. Wow....this could be a very useful tactic!!!
You argue like this is political debate... read words, interpret them the way you want, then argue with that interpretation even if you know your interpretation is not what the other person meant.

That sort of argument is a waste of everyone's time and effort. This is not politics, this is not a debate. It's an officiating discussion board, where we're all trying to get better.
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I did not say dropping the ball and catching it is not a dribble. I said "this" - the situation we're talking about (well, the situation we WERE talking about until you decided to insert a completely different scenario in its place and apply my statement to it). In the situation we're talking about, dropping the ball and not picking it up is not a dribble. You tried to imply that it was because Gravity is a Force, and you saw the word force in the rule. (Frankly ... another example of what you did to my post)

If you're simply here to out-debate us or win an argument, I'm not interested. If you're interested in discussing what rules apply here, please do so.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 23, 2013, 09:35pm
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Isn't there a rule that states a player cannot be the 1st to touch his own airball even if it is a shooting attempt? Was it NBA?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
Generally a travel. Once the pivot is lifted, the ball must be released on a pass or a try. 4-44-3,4

By definition, a player cannot pass to himself. 4-31-1

He's airborne, but not a shooter unless he releases the ball for a try.
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