Offensive Foul after Shooting Foul?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So what is the difference between the two case plays I posted above?

4.19.9a is two separate contacts. A1 is fouled by B1 on the way up, and A1 fouls B2 on the way down.

4.19.8c is a single contact which draws opposite calls from two different officials.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by just another ref

4.19.9a is two separate contacts. A1 is fouled by B1 on the way up, and A1 fouls B2 on the way down.

4.19.8c is a single contact which draws opposite calls from two different officials.

So in 4.19.8c it is strictly that 2 officials called two different things. SO in theory it could be exactly the same play but in one case, one referee calls both fouls (the false double foul). Is that right?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So in 4.19.8c it is strictly that 2 officials called two different things. SO in theory it could be exactly the same play but in one case, one referee calls both fouls (the false double foul). Is that right?

I see no reason why any double foul could not be called by two different officials. The unique thing about 4.19.8c is conflicting block/charge calls on the same play, which by definition is impossible. Others say both fouls must be reported when the officials give the conflicting preliminary signal, but I see nothing in the case play which demands this. What do you think?



Hey, he asked.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Hey, he asked.

I'll allow it.

If you don't mind a Don Quixote pic.

[Adam]

I'm not sure what the situations are, to be honest. But....

There would need to be more of a difference. Any time you have a double foul, neither can be a PC due to definitions. It is possible to have a double foul called by one official (not likely, but possible) on a shooter.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So in 4.19.8c it is strictly that 2 officials called two different things. SO in theory it could be exactly the same play but in one case, one referee calls both fouls (the false double foul). Is that right?

That's not correct. In 4.19.8C the fouls are by two players AGAINST EACH OTHER. That's a double foul. So the "charge" is NOT a PC foul, the try counts and you resume at the POI (B's ball on the endlien if the try is good, the arrow if the try is not good). This is really no different than A1 tries, B2 and A2 foul each other getting into position for the rebound.

In 4.19.9A , The fouls are not by players against each other. One B player fouls A1, and A1 in turn fouls a DIFFERENT B player. That makes it a false double foul. Here the "charge" is a PC foul and BOTH fouls are penalized.

[Adam]

One other possibility would be a simultaneous foul. No books handy, but I have to assume that would also exclude a PC.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

One other possibility would be a simultaneous foul. No books handy, but I have to assume that would also exclude a PC.

"A common foul ... nor part of a double, simultaneous or multiple foul."