Offensive Foul after Shooting Foul?

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Adam

If this is counted as a double foul, then it does not fit the definition of a player control foul.

B2 fouls airborne shooter A1 and A1 having released the shot, at approximately the same time, fouls B3 before landing. Does that not fit the definition of a double foul? Or is it your contention that these two fouls are unlikely to happen at aproximately the same time?
Help me understand your point.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Freddy

B2 fouls airborne shooter A1 and A1 having released the shot, at approximately the same time, fouls B3 before landing. Does that not fit the definition of a double foul? Or is it your contention that these two fouls are unlikely to happen at aproximately the same time?
Help me understand your point.

Double fouls exclude PC fouls. If it's a double, then it's not a PC. That's why the case play, where a double foul is called on a shot, says to count the basket and give the ball to the defensive team for an end line throw in.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Adam

Double fouls exclude PC fouls. If it's a double, then it's not a PC. That's why the case play, where a double foul is called on a shot, says to count the basket and give the ball to the defensive team for an end line throw in.

Thanx. That gives me something to check out tonight. Just incidentally, isn't a "blarge" an example of a double foul, one of which is a PC foul?

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thanx. That gives me something to check out tonight. Just incidentally, isn't a "blarge" an example of a double foul, one of which is a PC foul?

No, a blarge is one foul that is called differently by two different officials.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by AremRed

No, a blarge is one foul that is called differently by two different officials.

I see your point, but note that 4.19.8C (re. the "blarge") does say, "...itis not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul."
That seems to be different than what you are saying, but I'm still seeing the reasoning behind your statement.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thanx. That gives me something to check out tonight. Just incidentally, isn't a "blarge" an example of a double foul, one of which is a PC foul?

Nope, that's why you'd count the score on a blarge, too.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Adam

Double fouls exclude PC fouls. If it's a double, then it's not a PC. That's why the case play, where a double foul is called on a shot, says to count the basket and give the ball to the defensive team for an end line throw in.

Trying to find where either book says a double foul excludes PC fouls. Is there a reference I'm not seeing, or is that a reasonable inference you've drawn?
Not alleging you to be wrong, just trying to find a reference that justifies your point.
I do see that 2.19.8C says, "Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul." Is that what you were referring to, or is there another I should consider?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Trying to find where either book says a double foul excludes PC fouls. Is there a reference I'm not seeing,

Hint: Is a PC foul a common foul? Can a common foul be part of a double foul?

The definitions are your friend

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Freddy

B2 fouls airborne shooter A1 and A1 having released the shot, at approximately the same time, fouls B3 before landing. Does that not fit the definition of a double foul? Or is it your contention that these two fouls are unlikely to happen at aproximately the same time?
Help me understand your point.

This is not ever a double foul. In order to be a double foul, the opponents have to commit fouls against each other. This is not true in your scenario. This would always be a false double foul or simultaneous foul depending upon the timing of the two fouls.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by johnny d

This is not ever a double foul. In order to be a double foul, the opponents have to commit fouls against each other. This is not true in your scenario. This would always be a false double foul or simultaneous foul depending upon the timing of the two fouls.

Of course.
Duh.
Doi.
That's what I get when I try to think through these things while passing the time watching daughter's volleyball game.

[Sharpshooternes]

So in the blarge situation we are discussiong, when do you consider it a double foul and when do you consider it a false double foul? Whether the ball is released on the try or not? I am looking at 4.19.8c and 4.19.9a.

[Adam]

Double foul on a blarge. Never a false double.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Adam

Double foul on a blarge. Never a false double.

So what is the difference between the two case plays I posted above?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

So what is the difference between the two case plays I posted above?

4.19.9a is two separate contacts. A1 is fouled by B1 on the way up, and A1 fouls B2 on the way down.

4.19.8c is a single contact which draws opposite calls from two different officials.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That, is not a double foul. That is a false double foul since B2 committed the first foul and B3 was the one fouled by A1.

In this case, the foul by A1 is still a PC foul so the basket can be scored. But, since A1 was fouled in the act of shooting, A1 gets 2 FTs.

Now, the big question is whether you'll have A1 shoot the FTs with no one one the lane and award the ball to someone after the shot or if you'll shoot the FTs normally.

Did you mean "cannot be scored?"

As for your last question, it would depend on which foul happened first. In the OP, I'd clear the lane and give the ball to the defense after the basket.