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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 06:16pm
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How So?

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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If this is counted as a double foul, then it does not fit the definition of a player control foul.
B2 fouls airborne shooter A1 and A1 having released the shot, at approximately the same time, fouls B3 before landing. Does that not fit the definition of a double foul? Or is it your contention that these two fouls are unlikely to happen at aproximately the same time?
Help me understand your point.
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Last edited by Freddy; Thu Oct 10, 2013 at 06:26pm.
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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
B2 fouls airborne shooter A1 and A1 having released the shot, at approximately the same time, fouls B3 before landing. Does that not fit the definition of a double foul? Or is it your contention that these two fouls are unlikely to happen at aproximately the same time?
Help me understand your point.
Double fouls exclude PC fouls. If it's a double, then it's not a PC. That's why the case play, where a double foul is called on a shot, says to count the basket and give the ball to the defensive team for an end line throw in.
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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Double fouls exclude PC fouls. If it's a double, then it's not a PC. That's why the case play, where a double foul is called on a shot, says to count the basket and give the ball to the defensive team for an end line throw in.
Thanx. That gives me something to check out tonight. Just incidentally, isn't a "blarge" an example of a double foul, one of which is a PC foul?
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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Thanx. That gives me something to check out tonight. Just incidentally, isn't a "blarge" an example of a double foul, one of which is a PC foul?
No, a blarge is one foul that is called differently by two different officials.
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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 08:09pm
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
No, a blarge is one foul that is called differently by two different officials.
I see your point, but note that 4.19.8C (re. the "blarge") does say, "...itis not a player-control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul."
That seems to be different than what you are saying, but I'm still seeing the reasoning behind your statement.
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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 07:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Thanx. That gives me something to check out tonight. Just incidentally, isn't a "blarge" an example of a double foul, one of which is a PC foul?
Nope, that's why you'd count the score on a blarge, too.
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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 08:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Double fouls exclude PC fouls. If it's a double, then it's not a PC. That's why the case play, where a double foul is called on a shot, says to count the basket and give the ball to the defensive team for an end line throw in.
Trying to find where either book says a double foul excludes PC fouls. Is there a reference I'm not seeing, or is that a reasonable inference you've drawn?
Not alleging you to be wrong, just trying to find a reference that justifies your point.
I do see that 2.19.8C says, "Even though airborne shooter A1 committed a charging foul, it is not a player control foul because the two fouls result in a double personal foul." Is that what you were referring to, or is there another I should consider?
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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 10:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Trying to find where either book says a double foul excludes PC fouls. Is there a reference I'm not seeing,
Hint: Is a PC foul a common foul? Can a common foul be part of a double foul?

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Old Thu Oct 10, 2013, 11:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
B2 fouls airborne shooter A1 and A1 having released the shot, at approximately the same time, fouls B3 before landing. Does that not fit the definition of a double foul? Or is it your contention that these two fouls are unlikely to happen at aproximately the same time?
Help me understand your point.
This is not ever a double foul. In order to be a double foul, the opponents have to commit fouls against each other. This is not true in your scenario. This would always be a false double foul or simultaneous foul depending upon the timing of the two fouls.
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Old Fri Oct 11, 2013, 08:06am
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You're Correct

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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
This is not ever a double foul. In order to be a double foul, the opponents have to commit fouls against each other. This is not true in your scenario. This would always be a false double foul or simultaneous foul depending upon the timing of the two fouls.
Of course.
Duh.
Doi.
That's what I get when I try to think through these things while passing the time watching daughter's volleyball game.
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Last edited by Adam; Sat Oct 12, 2013 at 11:17pm. Reason: Off topic stuff
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Old Fri Oct 11, 2013, 08:54am
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So in the blarge situation we are discussiong, when do you consider it a double foul and when do you consider it a false double foul? Whether the ball is released on the try or not? I am looking at 4.19.8c and 4.19.9a.
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Old Fri Oct 11, 2013, 09:10am
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Double foul on a blarge. Never a false double.
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Old Fri Oct 11, 2013, 09:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Double foul on a blarge. Never a false double.
So what is the difference between the two case plays I posted above?
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Old Fri Oct 11, 2013, 10:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
So what is the difference between the two case plays I posted above?
4.19.9a is two separate contacts. A1 is fouled by B1 on the way up, and A1 fouls B2 on the way down.

4.19.8c is a single contact which draws opposite calls from two different officials.
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Old Fri Oct 11, 2013, 05:30pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
That, is not a double foul. That is a false double foul since B2 committed the first foul and B3 was the one fouled by A1.

In this case, the foul by A1 is still a PC foul so the basket can be scored. But, since A1 was fouled in the act of shooting, A1 gets 2 FTs.

Now, the big question is whether you'll have A1 shoot the FTs with no one one the lane and award the ball to someone after the shot or if you'll shoot the FTs normally.
Did you mean "cannot be scored?"

As for your last question, it would depend on which foul happened first. In the OP, I'd clear the lane and give the ball to the defense after the basket.
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