The butt bumping thread

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by potato

Which makes me wonder in an official game, how much of your butt can you use to your advantage?

If you're a hot mom - all of it.

BTW - I usually describe to a coach that using the rear end to displace another player is a "tush push".

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Adam

It needs to be read in concert with the incidental contact rule.

"contact which does not....is not a foul."

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm taking that into consideration when determining whether or not to make a call.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I had a rebounding situation earlier this season in a BV game in which B2 moves his body, butt first, into airborne A2 who was jumping for a rebound. B2 basically undercut A2 by moving into and displacing him.

Tweet.

Push on B2. A ball at the spot.

Kid looks at me with that "what did I do" look.

You moved him.
I blocked him out.
Blocking out is not displacing your opponent.

I had this exact same play. Long rebound, outside player jumps, inside guy moves underneath him and cuts the player coming down. I called a foul. Coach could not understand why it was a foul. Said his player had inside position. I said yes he did, but he moved underneath the other player. He said, thats just blocking out, we had inside position. He just couldn't understand. Next time out he asks me again. I just couldn't make him understand.

[potato]

most of the discussion is related to boxing out & displacement, however would you guys call it as a foul when:

Offense has the ball and is under the rim, Defense is behind him close & arms high sealing off the ball path to the basket. Offense does a pump fake crouch movement & uses the butt's natural motion to give the defender a bump on the belly or crouch (you know some guys love to stick out their butt when pump faking), the defender kept his position but the bump caused him to loosen his defense and offense gets a clear shooting path.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

most of the discussion is related to boxing out & displacement, however would you guys call it as a foul when:

Offense has the ball and is under the rim, Defense is behind him close & arms high sealing off the ball path to the basket. Offense does a pump fake crouch movement & uses the butt's natural motion to give the defender a bump on the belly or crouch (you know some guys love to stick out their butt when pump faking), the defender kept his position but the bump caused him to loosen his defense and offense gets a clear shooting path.

HTBT. I don't understand "kept his position" but "caused him to loosen his defense". Those seem contradictory to me.

Clearly, I've called PC fouls for clearing out with a shoulder or other body part before rising to take a jump shot.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by potato

most of the discussion is related to boxing out & displacement, however would you guys call it as a foul when:

Offense has the ball and is under the rim, Defense is behind him close & arms high sealing off the ball path to the basket. Offense does a pump fake crouch movement & uses the butt's natural motion to give the defender a bump on the belly or crouch (you know some guys love to stick out their butt when pump faking), the defender kept his position but the bump caused him to loosen his defense and offense gets a clear shooting path.

By the time all this happened, you'd have a 3 second call.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

HTBT. I don't understand "kept his position" but "caused him to loosen his defense". Those seem contradictory to me.

Clearly, I've called PC fouls for clearing out with a shoulder or other body part before rising to take a jump shot.

potato, as others have already suggested, the best way to look at any play scenario is from a very basic premise as opposed to "what if" and "what if".

Use the KISS method.

Mastering the concepts of verticality, legal guarding position and displacement will help you analyze and correctly answer just about any question that relates to physical contact on the basketball court.

[potato]

here is their position:

Basket & Board, Offense, Defense.

A1 grabs the rebound, D1 is behind him standing tall & firm arms up to block A1's shooting path, A1 does a pump fake and sticks out his butt and bumps D1, D1 is standing strong but the bump into his tummy or crouch depending on the players high stunned D1, giving A1 a good opportunity to shoot & score. It takes pretty much 1-2 seconds to do such feat.

Have you ever been bumped by the strong pump fake butt bump, it's pretty much like a punch to the tummy but hurt less because the butt surface area is bigger & has more flesh to cushion the impact.

In this case i would say the butt invaded the D1's verticality & made contact with him, however since it's a pump fake it may be incidental? Sometimes case scenario is a good way to explain written rules, that is how they teach law anyway, by using case studies.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by potato

Have you ever been bumped by the strong pump fake butt bump.

No. If it happened, I would be way the hell out of position. And I'd probably have an ejection for striking an official.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by potato

here is their position:

Basket & Board, Offense, Defense.

A1 grabs the rebound, D1 is behind him standing tall & firm arms up to block A1's shooting path, A1 does a pump fake and sticks out his butt and bumps D1, D1 is standing strong but the bump into his tummy or crouch depending on the players high stunned D1, giving A1 a good opportunity to shoot & score. It takes pretty much 1-2 seconds to do such feat.

Have you ever been bumped by the strong pump fake butt bump, it's pretty much like a punch to the tummy but hurt less because the butt surface area is bigger & has more flesh to cushion the impact.

In this case i would say the butt invaded the D1's verticality & made contact with him, however since it's a pump fake it may be incidental? Sometimes case scenario is a good way to explain written rules, that is how they teach law anyway, by using case studies.

I'm sorry....I'm literally laughing out loud right now..."tummy" and "crouch"...seems like I'm reading a 12 year olds posts. Or an adult that is purposefully trying to keep everyone guessing.

Anyway, I don't know about anyone else, but that already sounds like D1 has lost verticality before the pump fake happens. Yet, there's no contact in the description, so no foul. Your scenario has to be a "HTBT" because I just cannot envision A1 with his back to the rim in the paint bending in half and shoving his fleshy butt into D1's tummy and crouch.

[MD Longhorn]

Crouch is a verb.

[potato]

ok it's crotch if you insist.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I had a rebounding situation earlier this season in a BV game in which B2 moves his body, butt first, into airborne A2 who was jumping for a rebound. B2 basically undercut A2 by moving into and displacing him.

Tweet.

Push on B2. A ball at the spot.

Kid looks at me with that "what did I do" look.

You moved him.
I blocked him out.
Blocking out is not displacing your opponent.

Why is this not an intentional foul?

I read an article on this website whose entire focus was on this kind of play. The kid knows the kid is going to shoot or put the rebound back in. He backs up while he is in the air so there is no way the kid can land and will go down hard because he looked over his shoulder and backed up into his space. This article convinced me to use my body language/sign language skills to watch for information that he knows his opponent (typically taller) is going to get the board no matter what and put it back in but maybe I can cause him to rethink by making him go down to the ground hard by backing up underneath him. I am looking forward to replies.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by potato

here is their position:

Basket & Board, Offense, Defense.

A1 grabs the rebound, D1 is behind him standing tall & firm arms up to block A1's shooting path, A1 does a pump fake and sticks out his butt and bumps D1, D1 is standing strong but the bump into his tummy or crouch depending on the players high stunned D1, giving A1 a good opportunity to shoot & score. It takes pretty much 1-2 seconds to do such feat.

Have you ever been bumped by the strong pump fake butt bump, it's pretty much like a punch to the tummy but hurt less because the butt surface area is bigger & has more flesh to cushion the impact.

In this case i would say the butt invaded the D1's verticality & made contact with him, however since it's a pump fake it may be incidental? Sometimes case scenario is a good way to explain written rules, that is how they teach law anyway, by using case studies.

B1 (our shorthand for the on-ball defender) will not be able to block A1's "shooting path" from behind without breaking his own verticality. A1 has no need to bump him out of position, unless he's too far under the basket already. In that case, we'll call the displacement.

But, in your scenario, A1 bumps B1 without moving him. I'm not likely to call it unless he keeps trying to move B1.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigT

Why is this not an intentional foul?

I read an article on this website whose entire focus was on this kind of play. The kid knows the kid is going to shoot or put the rebound back in. He backs up while he is in the air so there is no way the kid can land and will go down hard because he looked over his shoulder and backed up into his space. This article convinced me to use my body language/sign language skills to watch for information that he knows his opponent (typically taller) is going to get the board no matter what and put it back in but maybe I can cause him to rethink by making him go down to the ground hard by backing up underneath him. I am looking forward to replies.

What part of the "intentional foul" definition do you think applies here?

*Most of the time* it is "just blocking out" (albeit illegally) and it's not excessive contact or contact designed to neutralize an obvious advantageous position or designed solely to stop the clock.