The butt bumping thread

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Displacement.

Good answer.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good answer.

One of the best one word answers to use with a coach when they ask "how was that a foul? All he did was box out?". The look on their face is priceless as they try to digest what they've just been told.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

One of the best one word answers to use with a coach when they ask "how was that a foul? All he did was box out?". The look on their face is priceless as they try to digest what they've just been told.

I had one of those this year. A-1 shoots, A-2 uses her body to push B-3 about 6-7 feet at the time of my whistle.

Me (reporting): "Blue, (A-2), pushing."
A-2: "Coach, I don't know what I did wrong!"
Coach A: "What did she do wrong?"
Me: "Displacement, sir."
Coach A: "Did she push with her body or her arms?"
Me: "Body."

The coach had a "but, that's legal!" look in his eye. He called me over at halftime to address it some more. The bottom line is that he's been teaching those kids that you can use your body to "box out." Again, I pushed the word "displacement," and the reply was "Right, I understand that, BUT..."

Uh, no, you don't, sir.

A veteran official I respect heavily put it this way, "Boxing out is screening, not displacing." I can't think of a more succinct manner than that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

A veteran official I respect heavily put it this way, "Boxing out is screening, not displacing." I can't think of a more succinct manner than that.

Simply using the word isn't going to get a coach to magically understand. If he's been teaching the kids it's ok to move the opponent as long as they have inside position, giving him a new word of the day isn't going to change his mind.

I just go straight to, "coach, boxing out is holding your position, not moving the other guy out of his."

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I had one of those this year. A-1 shoots, A-2 uses her body to push B-3 about 6-7 feet at the time of my whistle.

Me (reporting): "Blue, (A-2), pushing."
A-2: "Coach, I don't know what I did wrong!"
Coach A: "What did she do wrong?"
Me: "Displacement, sir."
Coach A: "Did she push with her body or her arms?"
Me: "Body."

The coach had a "but, that's legal!" look in his eye. He called me over at halftime to address it some more. The bottom line is that he's been teaching those kids that you can use your body to "box out." Again, I pushed the word "displacement," and the reply was "Right, I understand that, BUT..."

Uh, no, you don't, sir.

A veteran official I respect heavily put it this way, "Boxing out is screening, not displacing." I can't think of a more succinct manner than that.

I had a rebounding situation earlier this season in a BV game in which B2 moves his body, butt first, into airborne A2 who was jumping for a rebound. B2 basically undercut A2 by moving into and displacing him.

Tweet.

Push on B2. A ball at the spot.

Kid looks at me with that "what did I do" look.

You moved him.
I blocked him out.
Blocking out is not displacing your opponent.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I had a rebounding situation earlier this season in a BV game in which B2 moves his body, butt first, into airborne A2 who was jumping for a rebound. B2 basically undercut A2 by moving into and displacing him.

Tweet.

Push on B2. A ball at the spot.

Kid looks at me with that "what did I do" look.

You moved him.
I blocked him out.
Blocking out is not displacing your opponent.

I had this exact same play. Long rebound, outside player jumps, inside guy moves underneath him and cuts the player coming down. I called a foul. Coach could not understand why it was a foul. Said his player had inside position. I said yes he did, but he moved underneath the other player. He said, thats just blocking out, we had inside position. He just couldn't understand. Next time out he asks me again. I just couldn't make him understand.

[potato]

most of the discussion is related to boxing out & displacement, however would you guys call it as a foul when:

Offense has the ball and is under the rim, Defense is behind him close & arms high sealing off the ball path to the basket. Offense does a pump fake crouch movement & uses the butt's natural motion to give the defender a bump on the belly or crouch (you know some guys love to stick out their butt when pump faking), the defender kept his position but the bump caused him to loosen his defense and offense gets a clear shooting path.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

most of the discussion is related to boxing out & displacement, however would you guys call it as a foul when:

Offense has the ball and is under the rim, Defense is behind him close & arms high sealing off the ball path to the basket. Offense does a pump fake crouch movement & uses the butt's natural motion to give the defender a bump on the belly or crouch (you know some guys love to stick out their butt when pump faking), the defender kept his position but the bump caused him to loosen his defense and offense gets a clear shooting path.

HTBT. I don't understand "kept his position" but "caused him to loosen his defense". Those seem contradictory to me.

Clearly, I've called PC fouls for clearing out with a shoulder or other body part before rising to take a jump shot.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by potato

most of the discussion is related to boxing out & displacement, however would you guys call it as a foul when:

Offense has the ball and is under the rim, Defense is behind him close & arms high sealing off the ball path to the basket. Offense does a pump fake crouch movement & uses the butt's natural motion to give the defender a bump on the belly or crouch (you know some guys love to stick out their butt when pump faking), the defender kept his position but the bump caused him to loosen his defense and offense gets a clear shooting path.

By the time all this happened, you'd have a 3 second call.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by potato

most of the discussion is related to boxing out & displacement, however would you guys call it as a foul when ...

Ball-Handler / Hand-Checking
Any illegal use of hands, arms or body, offense or defense, that slows, prevents, impedes the progress, or
displaces an opposing player, due to the contact, is a foul and must be called. When a player places both
hands on a ball-handler, it is a foul. When a player continuously places a hand on the ball handler, it is a foul.
When a player continuously jabs a hand or forearm on a ball-handler, it is a foul. When a player jabs a hand,
or forearm, on an opponent to control his or her movement or gain an advantage, it is a foul. If the dribbler’s
rhythm, speed, balance, or quickness are affected, we should have a hand-checking foul. Tactics using the
hands, arms or body that permit any player, offense or defense, to control (hold, impede, push, divert, slow
or prevent) the movement of an opposing player is a foul.

Post Play
As lead, let’s find the post matchup as soon as possible so that we get the first foul. When a player uses hands,
forearms, or elbows to prevent an opponent from maintaining a legal position, it is a foul. When a player
dislodges an opponent from an established position by pushing or backing in, it is a foul. Let’s not allow a
defender to use a leg or knee to move a player off the block. When the defense undercuts, initiates lower
body non-vertical contact, slaps, pushes, holds, elbows, forearms or just generally demonstrates rough,
physical movements or tactics, this is a foul on the defense. Let’s make sure the offensive player isn’t holding
off the defender, or holding him with his off-hand. When the offensive player then uses the swim stroke,
pushes, pins, elbows, forearms, holds, clears with the body, or just generally demonstrates rough physical
movements or tactics, this is a foul on the offensive player. Don’t let players redirect, impede, displace, or
dislodge.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I had a rebounding situation earlier this season in a BV game in which B2 moves his body, butt first, into airborne A2 who was jumping for a rebound. B2 basically undercut A2 by moving into and displacing him.

Tweet.

Push on B2. A ball at the spot.

Kid looks at me with that "what did I do" look.

You moved him.
I blocked him out.
Blocking out is not displacing your opponent.

Why is this not an intentional foul?

I read an article on this website whose entire focus was on this kind of play. The kid knows the kid is going to shoot or put the rebound back in. He backs up while he is in the air so there is no way the kid can land and will go down hard because he looked over his shoulder and backed up into his space. This article convinced me to use my body language/sign language skills to watch for information that he knows his opponent (typically taller) is going to get the board no matter what and put it back in but maybe I can cause him to rethink by making him go down to the ground hard by backing up underneath him. I am looking forward to replies.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigT

Why is this not an intentional foul?

I read an article on this website whose entire focus was on this kind of play. The kid knows the kid is going to shoot or put the rebound back in. He backs up while he is in the air so there is no way the kid can land and will go down hard because he looked over his shoulder and backed up into his space. This article convinced me to use my body language/sign language skills to watch for information that he knows his opponent (typically taller) is going to get the board no matter what and put it back in but maybe I can cause him to rethink by making him go down to the ground hard by backing up underneath him. I am looking forward to replies.

What part of the "intentional foul" definition do you think applies here?

*Most of the time* it is "just blocking out" (albeit illegally) and it's not excessive contact or contact designed to neutralize an obvious advantageous position or designed solely to stop the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigT

Bob do you have a link so I understand better what I failed to address?

Here's the question he is talking about:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What part of the "intentional foul" definition do you think applies here?

*Most of the time* it is "just blocking out" (albeit illegally) and it's not excessive contact or contact designed to neutralize an obvious advantageous position or designed solely to stop the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigT

Why is this not an intentional foul?

I read an article on this website whose entire focus was on this kind of play. The kid knows the kid is going to shoot or put the rebound back in. He backs up while he is in the air so there is no way the kid can land and will go down hard because he looked over his shoulder and backed up into his space. This article convinced me to use my body language/sign language skills to watch for information that he knows his opponent (typically taller) is going to get the board no matter what and put it back in but maybe I can cause him to rethink by making him go down to the ground hard by backing up underneath him. I am looking forward to replies.

If you think he did it on purpose, go ahead and call it intentional. What I normally see is poorly coached players "boxing out" instead of jumping and undercutting the rebounder behind him. I had one this season, and the defender's response was an incredulous, "but I was on the inside."

Me: "You still can't push him or undercut him."