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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 02, 2013, 04:36pm
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Grabbing An Ankle: Intentional?

Didn't see the play. Read about it. A1 with the ball. B1 falls - now on the floor - reaches out and grabs the ankle of A1. I'm trying to think of a scenario where that would NOT be an intentional. It was called an intentional.

Thoughts?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 02, 2013, 04:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence View Post
Didn't see the play. Read about it. A1 with the ball. B1 falls - now on the floor - reaches out and grabs the ankle of A1. I'm trying to think of a scenario where that would NOT be an intentional. It was called an intentional.

Thoughts?
It's hard to envision how this would not be called an intentional.
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Old Sat Mar 02, 2013, 05:27pm
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Here's one possible way it might not be INT: it might be flagrant.
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Old Sat Mar 02, 2013, 06:24pm
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Ankle, leg, arm...I don't think it matters. Unable to play the ball, trying to over come a bad defensive position, reaching out to stop the opponent with the ball...INT.
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Old Sat Mar 02, 2013, 08:08pm
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Not A Basketball Play, Penalized As Intentional ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
It's hard to envision how this would not be called an intentional.
Easy to envision, in a footbal game.
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Old Sat Mar 02, 2013, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Ankle, leg, arm...I don't think it matters. Unable to play the ball, trying to over come a bad defensive position, reaching out to stop the opponent with the ball...INT.
Like those that grab a fistful of jersey near the waist, from the back.
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Old Sun Mar 03, 2013, 08:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
It's hard to envision how this would not be called an intentional.
Jacob did that in his first game some 4500 years ago. Wasn't called intentional, but his deception at that young age did play itself out later in life.
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Old Sun Mar 03, 2013, 10:23am
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Here's The Casebook Citation ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Jacob did that in his first game some 4500 years ago.
Genesis 25:25: The first one to come out was red. His whole body was covered with hair. So they named him Esau. Then his brother came out. His hand was holding onto Esau’s heel. So he was named Jacob.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 03, 2013 at 10:52am.
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Old Tue Mar 05, 2013, 12:25pm
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This type of play happened to me very early in my college career. In fact, it generated so much conversation in the locker room after the game, that I could tell you the exact teams and location of the game.

I'm the C opposite the table. Team A has the ball in the frontcourt. The ball swings quickly to my side of the court and is deflected by the defense creating a loose ball. Players dive onto the court. The ball is picked up by a player from Team B who is standing. He quickly turns to pass the ball to B2 who is wide open for what will be an easy lay-up at the other end.

However, as B1 is turning to pass the ball, A1 has both his arms wrapped around B1's leg.

I no-called it. B2 got the easy 2 points.

Here's the problem. Coach B saw the obvious holding foul and was upset that I didn't call it.

So the discussion in the locker room centered around whether to call the foul, because the coach obviously saw it and thought it should be called; or to allow the advantage and the easy basket. The consensus was to call it because it was obvious.

I said that if I called it, it would have to be intentional. (This was before the switch to the "Flagrant 1" language.) But nobody really liked that alternative, either. But I stand by the thought-process of that type of foul, if called, being an intentional foul. It's clearly not playing the ball.

However, in my particular situation, I still think the no-call was better, since the result was the easy lay-up.
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Old Tue Mar 05, 2013, 12:33pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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And, I'm not offended by any means, but it seems to me that quoting the Bible and referring to it as "the casebook" is inappropriate for this venue on at least a couple of levels.

I'm not really complaining, honest. I know we allow a lot of off-topic stuff in the name of humor (which I'm happy about!), I'd just ask you to think about whether that's the kind of thing you really want to post here, Billy.
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Old Tue Mar 05, 2013, 01:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref View Post
It's hard to envision how this would not be called an intentional.
If A1 is bent over and the ball is down by his ankle, and B1 grabs for the ball and gets ankle, I could have a common foul.
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Old Tue Mar 05, 2013, 01:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
And, I'm not offended by any means, but it seems to me that quoting the Bible and referring to it as "the casebook" is inappropriate for this venue on at least a couple of levels.

I'm not really complaining, honest. I know we allow a lot of off-topic stuff in the name of humor (which I'm happy about!), I'd just ask you to think about whether that's the kind of thing you really want to post here, Billy.
I completely agree with this point of view.
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Old Tue Mar 05, 2013, 02:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
I completely agree with this point of view.
And I completely don't. It was meant to be humorous. Lighten up.

I have no problem with a no-call in this situation, and telling the coach to STFU if he's mad I didn't call it, simply on the principle of advantage/disadvantage. If he wants to argue it further, he'll get his foul soon enough.
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Old Tue Mar 05, 2013, 02:45pm
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Freddy, I Owe You One, Be Prepared ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
I know we allow a lot of off-topic stuff in the name of humor (which I'm happy about!), I'd just ask you to think about whether that's the kind of thing you really want to post here, Billy.
I was simply explaining the Bible story that Freddy was referring to in case some Forum members was wondering what he was talking about. Up until a few years ago, I would not have known what he was talking about, and I'm sure that there are others in Forum land who had no idea what Freddy was referring to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Jacob did that in his first game some 4500 years ago. Wasn't called intentional, but his deception at that young age did play itself out later in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Genesis 25:25: The first one to come out was red. His whole body was covered with hair. So they named him Esau. Then his brother came out. His hand was holding onto Esau’s heel. So he was named Jacob.
Freddy: Thanks for getting me in trouble.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 03:05pm.
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Old Tue Mar 05, 2013, 02:48pm
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That Freddy, He's A Real Card ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mplagrow View Post
It was meant to be humorous.
Thanks, but my post was actually meant to be informative, not humorous. I believe that Freddy's original post was meant to be humorous, but I should let him speak for himself. I could be wrong, I usually am, just ask any veteran Forum membesr, or my ex-wife.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Mar 05, 2013 at 05:39pm.
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