Last seconds of Georgia at Arkansas

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point remains that the dribble ends, by definition, the moment the holding begins. The dribble is stopped by "holding" the ball in one or both hands. To introduce anything else is, by rule, just not correct.

You can't introduce football concepts where a catch needs to be defined (because whether the pass is complete or not depends on it) into basketball where it just doesn't apply.

If said player committed a foul at that moment, would it be a player control foul? If you say yes, that means they are either holding the ball or dribbling the ball. There are no other choices. If you're not going to let them dribble again, then they are holding the ball. If you say no, then you have introduced even more made-up rules that will require another discussion.

I did not say anything about football, just pointed out that other sports have a specific definition of a catch. For all you know I could have been using a baseball standard.

Isn't this why it is called judgment? I have not seen anything you have said that is solidly backed up by any rule as well. Actually you have been giving your opinion the same way I have. And if in live time I can tell that closely if there is control with one hand in examples like this, then it will be a first. Usually players bring the ball as a way to control the ball with both hands. Maybe you are watching different players than I am, but rarely is that done with just one hand. And you even said there is no such thing as a "gather" but you do not seem to know what is commonly used in that example.

We will just have to disagree on this one and I am fine with that fact.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say anything about football, just pointed out that other sports have a specific definition of a catch. For all you know I could have been using a baseball standard.

Isn't this why it is called judgment? I have not seen anything you have said that is solidly backed up by any rule as well. Actually you have been giving your opinion the same way I have. And if in live time I can tell that closely if there is control with one hand in examples like this, then it will be a first. Usually players bring the ball as a way to control the ball with both hands. Maybe you are watching different players than I am, but rarely is that done with just one hand. And you even said there is no such thing as a "gather" but you do not seem to know what is commonly used in that example.

We will just have to disagree on this one and I am fine with that fact.

Peace

Don't confuse the situation with gather...that is universally used in reference to a shooting foul or not a shooting foul. I've have never heard it used in the context of traveling.

And you have once again avoided the main question that will settle the situation....can that player in the still shot above legally turn that ball over and dribble again? Yes or no? If so, why?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Don't confuse the situation with gather...that is universally used in reference to a shooting foul or not a shooting foul. I've have never heard it used in the context of traveling.

I am really not concerned with what you universally have heard or not heard. I just am giving and example of when the player stopped his dribble. Honestly this is about a judgment call and trying to discribe why we have a travel or not a travel. Again not sure how someone stops a dribble without gathering the ball. And this player did so to shoot, so not sure why when that gather took place would all of a sudden not apply?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And you have once again avoided the main question that will settle the situation....can that player in the still shot above legally turn that ball over and dribble again? Yes or no? If so, why?

Why do people like you always want others to answer things the way you want them to? I have not avoided anything, I just disagree with you. I do not have a travel on that part of the play, it is that simple. If you do, then you will have to live with your call just like I will have to live with my call.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why do people like you always want others to answer things the way you want them to? I have not avoided anything, I just disagree with you. I do not have a travel on that part of the play, it is that simple. If you do, then you will have to live with your call just like I will have to live with my call.

Peace

Why do you want to avoid a simple question? Are you afraid that it will just expose your error? You say it is a travel. Fine. Back it up with a rule instead of made up mumbo jumbo.

Better yet, just answer the very simple question. Did the dribble end yet or not?

If so, how does it end? If not, explain why? This isn't a hard. Any rookie official should be able to answer that fundamental question.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure how someone stops a dribble without gathering the ball.

I'm sure. The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or both hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.

[just another ref]

Just thought of something. Several years ago, there was a kid around here who had a stroke before birth. (or something like that) He basically did everything with one hand, and by the way, was an outstanding player. So I guess he never "gathered" the ball, so he could never be called for traveling.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Just thought of something. Several years ago, there was a kid around here who had a stroke before birth. (or something like that) He basically did everything with one hand, and by the way, was an outstanding player. So I guess he never "gathered" the ball, so he could never be called for traveling.

Use the Google to look up "reductio ad absurdum."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Just thought of something. Several years ago, there was a kid around here who had a stroke before birth. (or something like that) He basically did everything with one hand, and by the way, was an outstanding player. So I guess he never "gathered" the ball, so he could never be called for traveling.

When I officiate that kid, I will worry about what he does. In this play he brought the ball together with both hands.

Can we talk about plays in the real world, not some special situation that none of us will see?

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why do you want to avoid a simple question? Are you afraid that it will just expose your error? You say it is a travel. Fine. Back it up with a rule instead of made up mumbo jumbo.

Better yet, just answer the very simple question. Did the dribble end yet or not?

If so, how does it end? If not, explain why? This isn't a hard. Any rookie official should be able to answer that fundamental question.

I think there is video in this thread about this play. Go look at the video. I think that will answer your question about what I think of this play. If not, get a better computer.

Peace

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

Use the Google to look up "reductio ad absurdum."

"The"?

And: nice use of reductio.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

"The"?

And: nice use of reductio.

It was intentional.

George Bush uses 'The Google' - YouTube

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

It was intentional.

George Bush uses 'The Google' - YouTube

Ha! I was unaware of the reference. That's almost as good as the late Sen. Stevens referring to the internet as a series of tubes.

Funny Bush couldn't remember the name of "Google Maps" in that context.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by maven

Ha! I was unaware of the reference. That's almost as good as the late Sen. Stevens referring to the internet as a series of tubes.

Funny Bush couldn't remember the name of "Google Maps" in that context.

Just like he said, "The internets" as well in a press conference. Then again I am a political junkie so that kind of thing is common knowledge for me and I got the reference immediately.

Peace

[maven]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just like he said, "The internets" as well in a press conference. Then again I am a political junkie so that kind of thing is common knowledge for me and I got the reference immediately.

Peace

I don't think you heard me correctly: I stated that I was unaware of the reference. I did not mention you or your activities.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by maven

I don't think you heard me correctly: I stated that I was unaware of the reference. I did not mention you or your activities.

The point is that if you were someone that paid attention to certain things, you would have gotten the reference (if you pay attention to political and pop culture commentary). Remember you gave Rich crap by his wording and then acted like he was unaware of what he stated. Heck you can take my actions out of this, you just did not realize he was making a joke.

Peace