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Huh? We were talking about fighting during a live ball - you asserted that if it's fighting then it MUST be a dead ball. So what killed the ball when someone starts fighting during a live ball (or did I misread you and you mean if someone starts fighting during a live ball, it's not really fighting?)
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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All I am saying is that if a fight takes place during a live ball, by definition it is not a flagrant T...it is a flagrant personal. If the fight takes place during a dead ball, then it is a flagrant T. |
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4-18: Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. 4-18-1: .............regardless of whether contact is made. 10-3-8 Player Technical: A player shall not be charged with fighting. Fighting is a technical foul. Fighting is fighting whether the ball is dead or live and whether contact occurs or not. Straight out of the book.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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This doesn't seem right.
A1 throws a punch at B1 and you hit your whistle. Immediately after your whistle B1 throws a punch back. Will can all agree that both players are disqualified. However are we to believe that A1 is charged with a flagrant foul, which means B1's sub must shoot the freethrows but then B1 is charged with a flagrant technical which means any memeber of team A, other than those that are dq'ed, can shoot the technical free throws. This wouldn't be a double foul as one is personal and one is technical.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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But I am not. 10-3-8 says fighting is a flagrant act. The definition of a technical says it is live ball non-contact, or dead ball contact. Therefore, a fight during a live ball is not a flagrant Technical as it not a dead ball situation. It is a flagrant personal. Unless of course you can use the rules to show me that I am wrong instead of "just because you say so". |
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Right. And 10-3 deals entirely with player technicals and does not deal with personal fouls.
At all.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Ok. Time to move on. How bout those mechanics from that Desert Valley guy? |
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Now you tell me fighting cannot be a live ball act, when 4-18 says, quite plainly: Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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Could he be a candidate for next season's "Dancing with the Stars"?
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I will go slowly for you. I never said fighting can not be a live ball act. I did say that if a fight occurs during a live ball, it is not a flagrant technical, but a flagrant personal.For reasons already stated. |
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A flagrant personal foul is a personal foul of a violent or savage nature. All personal fouls involve contact. Fighting may or may not involve contact. The contact, if it occurs, is secondary to the violent intent of the act.
The above is my interpretation. The below is not. 10-3-8 tells us a player shall not be charged with fighting, listing the penalty as two free throws for the offended team plus the ball at the division line. Where's the gray area here?
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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The rules are murky, but the only difference between a flagrant T and a flagrant personal foul is where you put the ball in play. Prolly not worth going to the mat over. New trivia question: what live-ball, contact foul is a technical foul.
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Never trust an atom: they make up everything. |
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