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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:16am
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The book has all the right players, but has the numbers for A1 and A2 switched. No one says anything (likely because they didn't know). After half time, the table calls you over to tell you that A1 and A2 have switched jerseys and are now wearing the correct numbers according to the book.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
The book has all the right players, but has the numbers for A1 and A2 switched. No one says anything (likely because they didn't know). After half time, the table calls you over to tell you that A1 and A2 have switched jerseys and are now wearing the correct numbers according to the book.

Adam:

Read NFHS R3-S2-A2c. Charge Team A with a TF. The TF counts towards Team A's seven and ten fouls for the second half.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:39am
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Flagrant fouls charged to both players.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:56am
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Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Adam:

Read NFHS R3-S2-A2c. Charge Team A with a TF. The TF counts towards Team A's seven and ten fouls for the second half.

MTD, Sr.
MTD...that rule states "requiring the scorer to change a team member's or player's number in the scorebook."

In the OP I don't think the scorekeeper had to change anything...

except the stats for each team member involved....certainly not their numbers...they did that themselves when they switched jerseys.

...not saying it isn't a T...just not sure that specific rule covers it.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 02:34am
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What's the T for? Like Dan mentioned, they didn't change the numbers in the book. I can see, by rule, a flagrant for each, but I'm not sure you can use the book T here.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:31am
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
What's the T for? Like Dan mentioned, they didn't change the numbers in the book. I can see, by rule, a flagrant for each, but I'm not sure you can use the book T here.
It doesn't seem like a book keeping error since the book remained the same but the players changed jerseys. Looks like a player tech per rule 10-3-1 fits...

ART. 1

A player shall not:

Participate after changing his/her number without reporting it to the scorer and an official.

PENALTY: (Art. 1) Flagrant foul. Penalized if discovered while being violated.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:32am
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So Smith is wearing number 21 and Jones is wearing number 33. But the book says Smith is wearing 33 and Jones is wearing 21?

But when the scorer puts points and fouls in the book, he does it based on his knowledge of the players...not the numbers they are wearing? That sure sounds like a book error to me.

The only rule I know that covers this is 10-3-1, which is a flagrant player technical for participating after changing a number without reporting it to the scorer. That does not sound like what happened here.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 07:38am
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I would say step one is to verify the team roster submitted to the scorer before the start of the game. If the book has what was submitted, then 10-3-1. If the scorer entered the info into the book wrong, then a bookkeeping error, no tech.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 08:18am
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10-1-2d "Require a player to change to the number in the scorebook"
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 09:28am
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Coach is trying to avoid the T by having the players exchange jerseys, but then you have to change the book by switching the players' stats. Either way, I would not permit this strategy to succeed.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:11am
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I doubt the coach knows the rule. And I would assume they made the change thinking it was the "easy" thing to do and were trying to be honest.

However, if you think they did it with intent, then charge them according to 10-3-1.

I think I would go to the coach and tell him the options.

He can go:
1) Switch the jerseys back to how they were and have 10-1-2 apply.
or
2) Keep them as they are and have 10-3-1 apply.

I would think once you explain the associated penalites he'll choose option 1.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:39am
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Originally Posted by PG_Ref View Post
It doesn't seem like a book keeping error since the book remained the same but the players changed jerseys. Looks like a player tech per rule 10-3-1 fits...

ART. 1

A player shall not:

Participate after changing his/her number without reporting it to the scorer and an official.

PENALTY: (Art. 1) Flagrant foul. Penalized if discovered while being violated.
Keep in mind that NFHS rules means that by applying a flagrant foul the kids are now ejected from that game and will lose the next game at that level. Unless you think that they were trying to be deceitful in some way IMO this would be a situation where prevenative officiating might be helpful. It's a harsh penality to eject 2 kids for 1 and a half games to a possible book keeping/clerical error. I've never been in this spot, that's a tough call for sure.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:16am
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Keep in mind that NFHS rules means that by applying a flagrant foul the kids are now ejected from that game and will lose the next game at that level. Unless you think that they were trying to be deceitful in some way IMO this would be a situation where prevenative officiating might be helpful. It's a harsh penality to eject 2 kids for 1 and a half games to a possible book keeping/clerical error. I've never been in this spot, that's a tough call for sure.
Rule reference, please.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:33am
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In the land of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by legend View Post
Keep in mind that NFHS rules means that by applying a flagrant foul the kids are now ejected from that game and will lose the next game at that level. Unless you think that they were trying to be deceitful in some way IMO this would be a situation where prevenative officiating might be helpful. It's a harsh penality to eject 2 kids for 1 and a half games to a possible book keeping/clerical error. I've never been in this spot, that's a tough call for sure.
DQ'd, technically.
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Old Fri Dec 21, 2012, 12:28pm
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Originally Posted by legend View Post
Keep in mind that NFHS rules means that by applying a flagrant foul the kids are now ejected from that game and will lose the next game at that level. Unless you think that they were trying to be deceitful in some way IMO this would be a situation where prevenative officiating might be helpful. It's a harsh penality to eject 2 kids for 1 and a half games to a possible book keeping/clerical error. I've never been in this spot, that's a tough call for sure.
Nothing in the NFHS rules affect the eligibility of a player for a game other than the one currently being played. The state association may be a different story.
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