Make The Call

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tjones1

He can go:
1) Switch the jerseys back to how they were and have 10-1-2 apply.
or
2) Keep them as they are and have 10-3-1 apply.

I would think once you explain the associated penalites he'll choose option 1.

Why would 10-1-2 apply? The correct numbers were in the book, just the names were in the wrong spot. 10-1-2 doesn't say anything about switching names in the book. So we would not be changing a players number would we? Or I am I over thinking this one?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Why would 10-1-2 apply? The correct numbers were in the book, just the names were in the wrong spot. 10-1-2 doesn't say anything about switching names in the book. So we would not be changing a players number would we? Or I am I over thinking this one?

You're massively over-thinking this one. Players wear numbers. Numbers don't have names. Two players had the wrong number in the book and had to be corrected. That the other player with the wrong number happened to have the first players correct number listed instead of a number not in use is coincidental.

[Adam]

Does 10-3-1 apply if the scorer tells you before play begins for the second half?

[OKREF]

Things like this is why we take the book to each coach at some point after the 10 minute pregame mark, and have them initial that everything in the book is correct.

There is going to be a T in this situation. Most likely in accordance with 10-1-2.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Things like this is why we take the book to each coach at some point after the 10 minute pregame mark, and have them initial that everything in the book is correct.

There is going to be a T in this situation. Most likely in accordance with 10-1-2.

We don't do that here. We just make sure there are at least as many players in the book as on the court. Coaches don't initial anything, and there's no point in that. If the coach supplied the correct info to a score keeper who transferred it wrong, are you guys calling the T?

If I'm calling a book T, I don't need the coach's initials to justify it.

Again, though, the T here is for changing numbers, but that doesn't happen in this situation.

And I'm not convinced 10-3-1 applies, either, since the players hadn't actually participated prior to the officials being notified.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Adam

Does 10-3-1 apply if the scorer tells you before play begins for the second half?

I see where you're going...I suppose we could/should inform the coach and give him/her the option?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I see where you're going...I suppose we could/should inform the coach and give him/her the option?

What option? I can't go to 10-3, they didn't participate without me being notified.
I'm not convinced I can use 10-1-2, as the players' numbers weren't changed.

Fortunately, it wasn't my game, and I hope it gets brought up at our next meeting.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

We don't do that here. We just make sure there are at least as many players in the book as on the court. Coaches don't initial anything, and there's no point in that. If the coach supplied the correct info to a score keeper who transferred it wrong, are you guys calling the T?

If I'm calling a book T, I don't need the coach's initials to justify it.

Again, though, the T here is for changing numbers, but that doesn't happen in this situation.

And I'm not convinced 10-3-1 applies, either, since the players hadn't actually participated prior to the officials being notified.

First, I should have said prior to the 10 minute mark. My mistake. Second, when we take it over to the coach, it is after the official scorekeeper has transfered all info, and whe the coach has initialed, any mistake found after that and the proper enforcement is applied, the coach can't make a big deal over it. When they initialed it, they confirmed everything was okay.

I didn't quote 10-3-1...I am using 10-1-2...Which says After the 10 minute mark a team shall not require the scorer to change a team members or players number in the scorebook.

Penalty: One foul only per team reardless of the number of infractions. Penalized when it occurs.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

What option? I can't go to 10-3, they didn't participate without me being notified.
I'm not convinced I can use 10-1-2, as the players' numbers weren't changed.

Fortunately, it wasn't my game, and I hope it gets brought up at our next meeting.

Yes, they switched jerseys, and by rule that would be two flagrant fouls and ejections, if they participate. My preference would be to tell the coach that by simply reversing the numbers in the book you only get 1 T.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Adam

What option? I can't go to 10-3, they didn't participate without me being notified.

Adam wins!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yes, they switched jerseys, and by rule that would be two flagrant fouls and ejections, if they participate. My preference would be to tell the coach that by simply reversing the numbers in the book you only get 1 T.

The rule says they have to participate "without notifying" the scorer or officials. That doesn't happen, so I don't think you can go to 10-3-1 at all.

10-1-2 is possible, but by the time it got noticed, they had rectified the problem. No numbers are changed in the book.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

First, I should have said prior to the 10 minute mark. My mistake. Second, when we take it over to the coach, it is after the official scorekeeper has transfered all info, and whe the coach has initialed, any mistake found after that and the proper enforcement is applied, the coach can't make a big deal over it. When they initialed it, they confirmed everything was okay.

I didn't quote 10-3-1...I am using 10-1-2...Which says After the 10 minute mark a team shall not require the scorer to change a team members or players number in the scorebook.

Penalty: One foul only per team reardless of the number of infractions. Penalized when it occurs.

Do what's expected in your area, I just don't see the rule justification for holding the coach accountable for the scorer's transcription error. Even if he initials the official book, he's not required by rule to ensure the scorer transcribed everything properly.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

The rule says they have to participate "without notifying" the scorer or officials. That doesn't happen, so I don't think you can go to 10-3-1 at all.

10-1-2 is possible, but by the time it got noticed, they had rectified the problem. No numbers are changed in the book.

I agree. I would go with 10-1-2 also.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I agree. I would go with 10-1-2 also.

For what? The numbers aren't changed.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

Do what's expected in your area, I just don't see the rule justification for holding the coach accountable for the scorer's transcription error. Even if he initials the official book, he's not required by rule to ensure the scorer transcribed everything properly.

I agree, but it sure makes it easier to explain to the coach when I can say... "Coach, you initialed the book stating everything was correct".