Make The Call

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

For what? The numbers aren't changed.

That's true.

[Adam]

Sorry, I'm just trying to flesh this out a bit.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Adam

Sorry, I'm just trying to flesh this out a bit.

It's all good. Book does say, if they change uniforms and participate it is a flagrant. I guess if the scorekeeper tells me prior to the start of the second half, I am going to the coach and saying..

1. If your two players participate after changing jerseys, each will be given a flagrant T, and they are ejected.

2. If you change the numbers in the book to the correct numbers, you will only receive 1 T.

I am pretty sure option 2 will be choosen.

But I don't even know if this is right. 10-3-1 says Participate after changing number without reporting it to the scorer and official. Which both were notified.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

...without reporting it to the scorer and official.

I've been wondering about this since the first post.

[MD Longhorn]

What's the penalty for changing your number and notifying the scorer and the official, and then participating?

[OKREF]

Casebook, Section 2, rosters starters and numbers
3-2-2

Team A properly submits its team member list and designates its five starters. However, the number for each team member is erroneously indicated. The error is not detected until after the game has started.

Rulling:
Only one team technical foul is charged regardless of the number of players and substitutes not wearing the number indicated in the scorebook. Each player must wear the number indicated in the scorebook or change the scorebook number to that which they are wearing. Any substitues who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the scorebook will not result in a penalty as the one maximum technical has already been charge to the team for an administrative infraction.(10-1-1 Penalty)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What's the penalty for changing your number and notifying the scorer and the official, and then participating?

I can't find one, if the change is to what the book already showed.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What's the penalty for changing your number and notifying the scorer and the official, and then participating?

None.

And, why doesn't 10-1-2d apply? (Most seem to be focusing on 10-1-2c)

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What's the penalty for changing your number and notifying the scorer and the official, and then participating?

Originally Posted by OKREF

Casebook, Section 2 rosters, starters and numbers
3-2-2

Team A properly submits its team member list and designates its five starters. However, the number for each team member is erroneously indicated. The error is not detected until after the game has started.

Rulling:
Only one team technical foul is charged regardless of the number of players and substitutes not wearing the number indicated in the scorebook. Each player must wear the number indicated in the scorebook or change the scorebook number to that which they are wearing. Any substitues who become players and require the changing of the number indicated for them in the scorebook will not result in a penalty as the one maximum technical has already been charge to the team for an administrative infraction.(10-1-1 Penalty)

I think I found it.

[Adam]

Let's say A1 wore 43 for the first half. In the book, he was 45. He had no fouls or points. At half time, the coach realizes what happened, has him put on 45, and tells the officials.

Or, what if the coach does the same thing right before tip-off?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

None.

And, why doesn't 10-1-2d apply? (Most seem to be focusing on 10-1-2c)

Possibly because they found everything out on their own during half time and changed and then told us they did it right before the start of the second half. So we're not finding out about it "when it occurred." (?) I could see this being no different from us being told they made the jersey switch during half time, but us not being told/finding out about it until midway through the second half.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Adam

Let's say A1 wore 43 for the first half. In the book, he was 45. He had no fouls or points. At half time, the coach realizes what happened, has him put on 45, and tells the officials.

Based on my last response to Bob's postulation, I guess it'd depend on when the change of jerseys actually happened. If in the locker room, hasn't it occurred in the past, and therefore wouldn't it not be punishable by the rule? Or are we to determine it having occurred being tied to a specific time period, such as an intermission, time out, or dead ball period?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

Let's say A1 wore 43 for the first half. In the book, he was 45. He had no fouls or points. At half time, the coach realizes what happened, has him put on 45, and tells the officials.

Or, what if the coach does the same thing right before tip-off?

T.

The "no penalty" part is A1 wears #43 and is listed as #43 in the book. Decides it's an unlucky number because he had no points in the first half. Changes to #45 and tells everyone.

(Okay, it usually happens with blood or a torn jersey, etc.)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Adam:

Read NFHS R3-S2-A2c. Charge Team A with a TF. The TF counts towards Team A's seven and ten fouls for the second half.

MTD, Sr.

In the OP Adam said: "The book has all the right players, but has the numbers for A1 and A2 switched. No one says anything (likely because they didn't know). After half time, the table calls you over to tell you that A1 and A2 have switched jerseys and are now wearing the correct numbers according to the book."

When I made my OP it was 12:37amEST, it was obviously way past my bedtime, , and I did not pay attention to the sentence highlighted in red. The information contained in that sentence does change my position somewhat. Therefore by rule (NFHS R10-S3-A1) which stipulates that both A1 and A2 are charged with FTFs.

First, I would have some questions for the Scorer (this is not an all inclusive list but I think one could see that there are a number of questions that can be asked):

1) Were A1 and A2 wearing their normal jersey numbers and did you mistakenly transpose their numbers in the Scorebook?

2) Did you enter the correct numbers for A1 and A2 and did they decide to exchange jerseys without telling you?

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Let us just say that this could be, as they say in the Marine Corps, this could have been a "cluster ****".

[Camron Rust]

The change jerseys rule is not really for mixups in the book. It is to deal with deception...a player changing numbers to start fresh on their foul count or to confuse the opposing team. They do that, they get a T. There are exceptions for blood or torn jerseys but those sorts of changes must go through the scorer and the official so that every one is aware of what is going on. This is not for when the names and numbers in the book are mixed up. It is for when the book is correct to start and they change to a new number.

When the names and numbers in the book don't match the player who has participated, that is an administrative error. The names and numbers in the book both matter. The name is the base information and the number is just an identifier used to log activity. If John Doe is wearing 42 and the book has them as 24 while Jimmy Doe is wearing 24 and the book has them as 42, that is an error in the book and must be fixed at the cost of an administrative T. Switching jerseys to match the book is not allowable without penalty.